Approaches to Improvisation

[pamosmusic]

Remember though that we were talking about continuous 8th notes at high speeds, playing quarter note phrases at 280 or whatever is a cinch compared to that.

No, we're talking about using continuous eighth notes to get better at playing at high speeds. And about whether your struggles at faster tempos are just an ear thing, or might include some technical limitation.

And due respect, but quarter notes at 280 isn't all that different than your eighth notes at 150 is it? My math tells me that it would only be about ten clicks slower. So are you sure it's a cinch?

[Mick-7]

No, we're talking about using continuous eighth notes to get better at playing at high speeds. And about whether your struggles at faster tempos are just an ear thing, or might include some technical limitation.

And due respect, but quarter notes at 280 isn't all that different than your eighth notes at 150 is it? My math tells me that it would only be about ten clicks slower. So are you sure it's a cinch?

I suspect that continuous quarter notes at 280 would not be a cinch, no, I was not thinking of it in those terms. At any rate, it's clearer now what I need to work on.

People have mentioned mapping out and connecting scales for the exercise, for me, thinking in terms of connecting chord tones is simpler and more effective.

[BreckerFan]

Also need to factor in time feel. Double time at 100 isn't the same as eighths at 200 isn't the same as quarters at 400 (if anyone would do such a thing lol).

The gold standard for up tempo playing that's not lines will always be the second half of this solo (he plays lines for the first half, in case you had any doubt that he could)

[Mick-7]

By the way, BreckerFan, is there a specific video or whatever in which Adam Rogers discusses the continuous 8th notes exercise?

[pamosmusic]

Also need to factor in time feel. Double time at 100 isn't the same as eighths at 200 isn't the same as quarters at 400 (if anyone would do such a thing lol).

The gold standard for up tempo playing that's not lines will always be the second half of this solo (he plays lines for the first half, in case you had any doubt that he could)

This solo rules.

[BreckerFan]

By the way, BreckerFan, is there a specific video or whatever in which Adam Rogers discusses the continuous 8th notes exercise?

One of his my music master class videos, I can't remember which one.

[lawson-stone]

You are too kind, there were a few buzzy notes at the start.

Re: my tone, I was very pleasantly surprised how good this cheap little Good-Will amp sounds (looks good too). I bought if for my acoustic guitar, but my Tele sounds better through it than through my Polytone! (I was playing a Tele in my Stella clip).

Dean Markley AG-15 Ultrasound Acoustic Guitar Amplifier | ShopGoodwill.com

I didn't notice the buzz. I have trouble playing "clean" and so I notice when others play clean.

[lawson-stone]

I've found that being able to play a scale or arpeggio fast is not very correlated at all with being able to play musical sounding lines fast.

I think we can trick ourselves into thinking we have more usable techniques than we do. You would think if you have the raw technique to play a scale at 200 bpm, then you should be able to play a solo on a tune at 200 bpm. But you also need to be able to control the direction of phrases, land them where you want them, navigate changes, etc etc.

That's why composed etudes are such a big part of my practice. Also playing transcribed up tempo solos. If you want a vocabulary of interesting sounding lines at moderate to fast tempos, you have to practice interesting sounding lines at those tempos. It's not just gonna magically come together on the fly.

I also find that alongside these 8th note self-created exercises that playing transcribed solos really helps. I went through the Aebersold Jimmy Raney set some years ago where he provides 10 solos he composed specifically to walk the player through the essential idiom of bebop. They were quite hard, at least for me, but our study group literally went 4 measures PER WEEK and by the end there were just 2 or 3 of us left, but we finished the book. I often go back and review those solos because they had such a powerful "logic." Raney's long lines really make you think and look ahead.
I think actually transcribing is also very helpful and I've done a bit of that, but playing these published transcriptions has been super.

[lawson-stone]

Also need to factor in time feel. Double time at 100 isn't the same as eighths at 200 isn't the same as quarters at 400 (if anyone would do such a thing lol).

The gold standard for up tempo playing that's not lines will always be the second half of this solo (he plays lines for the first half, in case you had any doubt that he could)

My lord, what an album. I lose all track of where I am or what I'm doing when I hear that. "No Blues" is just... perfect.

[BreckerFan]

My lord, what an album. I lose all track of where I am or what I'm doing when I hear that. "No Blues" is just... perfect.

Yeah if I had to pick one album to define what jazz guitar should sound like, it would be this one. Wes playing lights out plus maybe the best bop rhythm section ever equals magic.

[grahambop]

By the way, BreckerFan, is there a specific video or whatever in which Adam Rogers discusses the continuous 8th notes exercise?

It’s in this one (I’ve got it):

Adam Rogers - Technical Guitar Studies (2) - My Music Masterclass

[lawson-stone]

So guys, taking my life into my hands here, I am going to try the 8th note exercise on "Donna Lee." I love playing the head, and ages ago I learned Charlie Parker's solo from the Omnibook and recordings. But I have seldom tried just playing over the changes. I sat down with it today and could pound out some lame arpeggios and connecting tones over the changes at about 135 bpm but I hope to branch out into more musical 8th note lines and to get the tempo up to something that does justice to the tradition of the tune, though I've never played the tune cleanly much above 200-220. The old fingers just won't move!

Still, it should be a productive exercise, even if kind of a failure... a productive failure!

Reminds me of a line from the streaming series "Landman." The main character tells his daughter "Every romantic relationship in your life will fail except the last one. So… do you feel like this guy is the last one?"

[Mick-7]

Lawson, I would not recommend forming a romantic relationship with Donna Lee, she has a reputation as a heart breaker.

However, I'd approach her as Graham suggested in this post -- Approaches to Improvisation

It’s in this one (I’ve got it):

Adam Rogers - Technical Guitar Studies (2) - My Music Masterclass

Thank you, does he give any other salient details re: the exercise, or is "play over a tune in continual 8th notes" pretty much it?

[grahambop]

Can I use ‘twee and risible’ as a pull quote for the promo for Rage Against the Tagine’s first EP Resistance is Useless?

I hope this EP has a track called ‘Begin the Tagine’.

[grahambop]

Thank you, does he give any other salient details re: the exercise, or is "play over a tune in continual 8th notes" pretty much it?

Well basically that it helps develop playing through changes with clear structure in your lines, good time etc. He demonstrates it on Stella and Giant Steps, medium and fast versions, playing it with some limitation rules etc.

I have bought quite a few of these masterclass videos because if nothing else, I get inspired and motivated just watching these guys play and show the kind of stuff they practise.

Here’s the trailer on youtube:

[kris]

B.Galbright books are written in eighths-notes. I mean exercises.

[GuyBoden]

how are you doing this

HHjSoKkG_XU is your YouTube video identifier for the short.

Use this "video identifier" in standard YouTube mode.

See the difference below:

[James W]

Well basically that it helps develop playing through changes with clear structure in your lines, good time etc. He demonstrates it on Stella and Giant Steps, medium and fast versions, playing it with some limitation rules etc.

I have bought quite a few of these masterclass videos because if nothing else, I get inspired and motivated just watching these guys play and show the kind of stuff they practise.

Here’s the trailer on youtube:

Me too. I have all of Adam Rogers', Pasquale Grasso, Mike Stern and Mike Moreno. I think Stern advocates similarly practising playing through the changes in quarter or eighth notes.

[Christian Miller]

I hope this EP has a track called ‘Begin the Tagine’.

I think this needs to happen


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[grahambop]

I think this needs to happen


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Bonus track?

Honestly just seeing that in the track-list would probably make me buy it.

[grahambop]

Me too. I have all of Adam Rogers', Pasquale Grasso, Mike Stern and Mike Moreno. I think Stern advocates similarly practising playing through the changes in quarter or eighth notes.

Yes I’ve got most of those.

Adam Rogers is incredible, he seems to have classical guitar chops to match his jazz technique. I love the way he uses the classical guitar on a few of the tracks on the albums I’ve got by him. Apparently he did a few years at a classical conservatory or something.

[GuyBoden]

I think this needs to happen

Yes, begin the Lancashire Hotpot:

[pamosmusic]

Me too. I have all of Adam Rogers', Pasquale Grasso, Mike Stern and Mike Moreno. I think Stern advocates similarly practising playing through the changes in quarter or eighth notes.

I go in and do the monthly rental thing from time to time. Got all the Ari Hoenig rhythm ones recently.

But the Bergonzi ones have been evergreen for me.

[James W]

Yes I’ve got most of those.

Adam Rogers is incredible, he seems to have classical guitar chops to match his jazz technique. I love the way he uses the classical guitar on a few of the tracks on the albums I’ve got by him. Apparently he did a few years at a classical conservatory or something.

Yes, I'd heard that he'd started on classical. I don't know that much about his music other than the my music masterclass videos and a few things on YouTube.

I'll start a thread.

[ragman1]

I don't rate Adam Rogers. All his stuff seems a bit flat to me. I'm not excited by it for some reason.