-
Hello all,
My post is about a sense of fatigue with the tone of electric guitar, especially in jazz music. I'm putting it in the gear section because I think the signal chain is the key to my problem.
First, I feel I should give some context to where I'm coming from.
I've been playing for a good long while now, and I've played my main guitar, a heavily modified Gibson ES-139, for over a decade. I have a bachelor's degree in "music performance, popular music - Electric guitar", whatever that really means.
This guitar has been through a lot with me, and every so-called high point of my even more so-called career has been experienced through it.
I fell in love with how it played, and that has never changed. No other guitar has ever played like this one, including the other ES-139 the store had in stock when I bought it.
Because of this, it has been modified so that I don't have to own or play other electric guitars. It has an HSH pickup configuration, with individual on/off switches for all 3 pickups, as well as the option to coil split on the humbuckers. It has 21:1 tuners and upgraded electronics, as well as a faber screw-locked bridge and aluminium tailpiece, though those are about to be replaced with a vibrato bar setup and rolling bridge whenever I can be bothered to do it. All that's original is the wood.
Aside from my weekend in the college and all which that entailed, I worked for 6 years selling guitars for a living.
Recently I turned 30, which means that I've been doing this for 2/3rds of my life. It's strange to think about how important the guitar has been for me, in how it made me relocate with the purpose of studying it in-depth, and with the intention of making a living from playing it. And today, it's not even the first hobby I tell people about. I'll only mention I play guitar to someone who's told me they do.
All of this context is to say that I've done my time and have seen and heard a lot of different ways of dealing with the electric guitar. However, there is an ever-looming problem I've been having. I am so tired of the sound of jazz electric guitar. I can't seem to find any type of tone where I don't get sick of it after a while. This includes many great, inspiring players, too.
Is there something intrinsically fatiguing about the midrange-heavy sound of an electric guitar? Or could it be the approach (John Scofield in a cathedral OR Kurt Rosenwinkel also in a cathedral) that many jazz guitarists use that's saturated my mind to the point of exhaustion? Simply put, I can't seem to get it to work for me. I seem to feel that my own tone gets monotonous quite quickly, even if I try different approaches. Every time, it's the same fallacy as switching shoes; "oh this feels much better" simply by virtue of being a change-up.
It's not just myself I find boring, though. I also frequently skip the guitar solo when I'm listening to music, and I lament the approach many guitarists use to their tone. Yet, I don't know if I have the answer. I feel that the electric guitar somehow has less of an expressive or dynamic range compared to my classical guitar. But, I can listen to hours of Michael Brecker at his top intensity without feeling bored. That's not to say that I have sax envy as so many do, but rather to say that I can listen to one "flavour" of music endlessly.
It's different if it's solo guitar. I love listening to guitarists playing alone, like Joe Pass, Ted Greene, Ralph Towner, and Doug de Vries. The disparity of these styles and tones tells me that it's not about me having an "ideal tone" for all guitar playing. In band settings, though, I struggle to think of great sounds that would entice me through an entire album or concert.
So, while I'm not exactly looking for answers to what I should try in terms of signal chain specifics, I'd love to hear some thoughts on how to approach the tone of the electric guitar. While it is gear-specific, it's more of a methodology question. Is this a familiar rut? How do you get yourself to think outside of the box? Is the electric guitar simply an inferior instrument? Any and all thoughts are, as always, welcome and eagerly awaited.
In the meantime, it's Friday afternoon and I shall sit down to experiment. Tonight's agenda is ordering a pizza and trying out new approaches almost at random. I hope you all have a lovely weekend.
-
07-03-2026 11:29 AM
-
What you’re describing strikes me as completely subjective. To you there’s something fatiguing about the sound of electric guitar, but to me there isn’t, at least at not as broadly. I mean, sure, there are players and sounds I find displeasing enough that’ll skip them, but overall I’m as drawn to electric guitar as I ever was.
I have a few guitars, and I switch off between them to keep things fresh, break out of ruts, etc. Even though the differences are not all that dramatic, it works.
-
What John A just said. It makes good sense to me, and I do hear what you are saying about maybe...too much of a good thing??
You have to get out of your tonal rut. I'd say there are a few ways to do that.
For myself, and I have gotten bored with a lot of music from time to time, sometimes I don't listen to music at all! It just doesn't do what I need it to do at times.
Possibilities: listen to old 30's and 40's or 50's music. Listen to their craftsmanship, inspiration, beautiful recordings and compositions, their abilities at emotions, and at "swinging". I love listening to the guitarists in that period. They were so different from what we have to endure now
and many of them excelled at their instruments. Same with the vocalists then.
Other remedies: classical guitar, sounds and studies, a good flattop six string, your own compositional activity, put the electric guitar down for a spell, give it a vacation!!!
But enjoy your musical path, wherever it may lead you.
-
Go out and get a strat. Sits much better in a mix. Much larger variety of tones. Switch on and off. Probably won't be as comfortable to play. That might do you some good.
-
I have a 335 and Twin Reverb so I don't get in those tone-ruts unless the amp needs retubed, my guitar needs new strings, or just tuned. It always sounds the same, and it always sounds good to me....
You yakked forever about your guitar but couldn't even mention your amp or anything else in your signal chain which seems suggestive that you haven't put as much thought into what probably amounts to the more important end of your tone.
I'm not sure I can help you without some more specifics on your end.
-
I can't see the image of the guitar. All it says is 'not available'. Any chance of reposting it please?
-
I have a really easy suggestion for you: download the free version of Cantabile. It's a VST host. Here's the link Cantabile - Software for Performing Musicians
Then gather up a big mess of free VST's and IR's and experiment endlessly with their sequence and different mixing and matching. It's amazing how much you discover when you do that and it doesn't cost you a dime.
-
I doubt that I have anything helpful to say, but this is what comes to mind.
One of the most productive practice sessions I ever had was one day when I decided to improve my tone. Probably 10 years ago by now.
I had a Boss ME70, or maybe ME80, so I had a lot of tonal options.
I tried to empty my mind of preconceptions and focus on the way a guitar "should sound".
This quote came from an interview with a blues player I once read in GP. He picked his guitar because he thought it sounded the way a guitar "should sound".
Initially, I was dismissive. How "should" a guitar sound? But, when I thought about it, that's exactly what I was looking for -- to realize my idea of how a guitar "should sound".
I started with the idea that I needed a thick sound for the very highest notes. That led me to adding octave-down with the harmonizer. I didn't want the midrange notes to sound sterile or dull, which led to harmonizer-on-zero at different levels of wetness.
I came up with four patches in the course of hours of fiddling with the knobs. Over time, I changed one of them. I still use the others. They're not perfect, but they're close. I can hear another in my mind, based on overdrive, but I can't get it with the ME70 I'm using now. I was able to get it back in the day when I could lift a Mesa Boogie.
My patches aren't likely to interest anybody else. But, when I play with them, on a good night, the gear disappears and the music sounds the way it should sound.
As a general observation, sax can be an extremely expressive instrument. Hard to keep up with that on guitar. But, there are a number of very expressive guitarists. There are a lot of ways to speak a note, or notes. Maybe it's more of the same. Empty your mind of preconceptions and try to hear what will make your guitar expressive. This may be more in your hands than your gear, which may be true of tone in general.
Good luck!
-
Maybe, buy a Saxophone.
-
I have had the same issues.
I fell in love with the electric guitar sound. That's what got me into it. The rock, heavy metal etc those long sustained bends and fluid lines.
Then I got into blues, the sound of the flat top, the zing and again long notes.
Im not sure the arch top was ever designed to be an electric guitar. It was an acoustic instrument but pickups got added later, almost as an afterthought to allow guitarists to carry on mainly comping at louder volumes.
Ive struggled with tone. Ive had the Gibsons, guilds and boutique guitars all of which sound lovely at quiet volumes either amped or unplugged. I think the problem is when you have to play loud. Like really loud, like rock level.
Every jazz guitarist has experimented with all sorts . Acoustic amps, valve amps, modellers, preamps, effects, strings, two amps. I think Larry Carleton is the only guy ive seen plug straight into an amp but even that's only in particular settings.
Ive tried string gauges too, some say the heavier the string the better the tone. Lage Lund says 18 on the B and 14 on the E and he also says he tried 100s of picks.
Ive tried all this and yes it all makes a difference but its not equipment or gear or that will give you the answer your looking for.
If your tired then its usually because your hearing the same thing.
Guitarists are the worst. Take electric blues players. They play the same licks and over the years, instead of learning new lines, they play the same lines and change their gear.
For me, I gave up chasing the ideal sound and just concentrated on phrasing, rhythm and not using sustained notes. Spend time creating your own chord voicings,
Play tunes rubato with melody, voicing, lines and space. There can be silence in solo guitar playing. Plug into an amp with no effects and still try and play.
Its hard, but I feel much better relying on good feel and time and rhythm as opposed to relying on an amazing sound every time I play.
I think horn players can invest. in top instruments, because they can carry it with them. The electric guitarist always has to have an amplifier. It's just the way it is, don't let it get you down.
-
I love the multitude of sounds Bill Frisell gets from an electric guitar. That’s partly because he uses sounds not typically associated with the classic ‘jazz guitar sound’ (which I also like by the way) but also because they are sounds that are pleasing to me regardless of the style they are applied to. Your milage may vary.
-
While the OP gives details of his instrument, and has a professional background that makes a hopeless amateur like me blush, we actually don't know too much of his music style(s) or the rest of the signal chain. However, it's clear he isn't frustrated with his own sound only but the sound - or even role - of jazz guitar in general.
Jazz guitar sound is not a monolith but a range of sounds and styles from almost 100 years of recording, from acoustic and Django-style all the way to the highly processed voices of Scofield, Rosenwinkel and many other contemporary players. Live sound is one thing, studio sound is another.
On this forum we have a bunch lifetime players, now in their late 70s and early 80s, still going nuts about a new guitar, amp, speaker or pedal. Here's my suggestions to OP:
1) Take a break, if you can.
2) Let someone else play your guitar and listen. It sounds different (invariably better) when you're the audience.
3) If you're like Mike Stern, you're actually fed up with the directionality of a typical guitar amp. There's ways to address this.
4) Have an affair. You've been married to your trusted axe for a long time. How about something different, e.g. Godin's Multiac, or a seductive, curvaceous 17" archtop with a strong acoustic voice to begin with.
Diversity is not a sin. My fallback guitar is a 1999 Epiphone Emperor Regent. It blends acoustic and electric sound beautifully. You can still get one for less than 1K. If it starts to feed back, I grab something else. BTW, EPI ES-339 Pro is my main cab testing axe.
-
You are playing a guitar that only does one thing. You need to try a telecaster, stratocaster, Gibson style electric archtop (ES 175 or L5 CES), acoustic style archtop (Eastman).
There's a broad palette of sounds available. No reason to limit yourself.
-
Grab an eq box with programable presets. Work on some different voicings. As others have said, there are many jazz guitar tones. I dont have the experience some of you have but I do have eyes and ears. Our senses can get overwhelmed and fatigued. You may find you need to change the tone a lot but you also might find that minor to moderate chages may offer some relief as well as a boost in creativity. Cycle through a few nice settings and see if it helps.
Perhaps play fewer notes.
No one can tell you exactly why you experience this fatigue but you can try many solutions to address it.
Start with the easy ones...and the most affordable (unless you are independently wealthy).
-
I know from reading your past posts that you had a "Robben Ford fusion" interest at one point, and that you got a music degree. I'm going to assume that the latter exposed you to a lot of different styles and sounds. Maybe you are just tired of everything that's familiar.
I''ve "liked" a few posts in this thread that suggested ways to try to change things up, and now I'm going to say something that may or may not land, that has nothing to do with music. I hear you saying that you are in a rut (tonally, at least, maybe in other ways, too.) Imagine eating your favorite food or eating at your favorite restaurant EVERY day for DECADES. You ate that way every day, whether you wanted to or not, because we all know that daily practice, even when you dont want to, is key to growth. One day, you just don't want to eat that food or eat at that restaurant any more. Would that surprise anyone here? I don't think so.
Why should music be any different? You need a change or a break. Here are some ideas:
- Can you go on a vacation for two weeks minimum, with no access to a guitar?
- A variation on that idea: stay home but pursue a non-music hobby for a month. Woodworking, hiking, cooking, whatever. Just lock your guitar in a closet and don't touch it for a month. You will have fresh ears and more motivation upon your return. You may not be able to play worth a sh-- for a week or two when you restart, but you've been playing long enough that your skills will return.
- Can you go to see some concerts? I find that live music always rekindles my interest. Great musicians inspire me and awful musicians piss me off, making me want to go home and play so that I'm on the stage instead of having bad musicianship inflicted upon me as an audience member.
A lot of good ideas in the preceding posts, too. I wish you luck, and do let us know how things go...
EDIT: Re-reading the OP, MrQ says he thinks its "in the signal chain." There's no shortage of new and novel fx boxes these days. Maybe head down to the store and try a Kemper, AxeFX, or Helix. On the less-pricey side, some pretty unusual stompboxes have come out in the past two years, like guitar synths without the price tag and tracking headaches. A new signal-processing toy might be just the thing!Last edited by starjasmine; 07-03-2026 at 09:48 PM.
-
Sounds like OP is experiencing burn out.
I had a similar thing in my 30s. Quit bass, quit my bands, didn’t really play music for about 5 years. When I saw a jazz guitar video and thought it looked like a fun genre to age into. I always loved listening to jazz, but never tried to play it.
-
Two question that aren't really about your post:
1. What is an ES-139? That looks like a modified Les Paul Standard.
2. If you don't mind sharing, where did you get a "bachelor's degree in 'music performance, popular music - Electric guitar.'" I'm just curious/interested. Feel free to PM me if you'd rather.
-
Re-reading the OP I noticed he stated he felt the classical guitar has a more expressive and dynamic range than his electric. OP you gotta crank that amp way up and then pick lightly, choosing which spots to step up the attack. The dynamics are in your picking hand and in your guitar's volume control. You MUST utilize those for optimum expression and dynamic range!!!
I went many years worrying about setting my max volume to not offend people's ears which meant limiting my picking dynamics to one method, that of an aggressive right hand that my leads might stay on top of the band. It was a bad habit that took a long time to un-learn. I find myself now constantly tweaking my volume and tone controls for the optimum settings during a given song or passage.....
I gotta disagree with guys saying he needs a rack full of different guitars. He's got a sweet axe. I could easily go a lifetime with a guitar like that provided the pickups suited my amp.
-
Just imagine being a flute player.
No chords. Never. No harmony, except some hard to produce harmonics.
Just melodic lines, always, ever and ever.
Same sound, again and again.
Maybe, sometimes, some frullato. (Flutter-tonguing)
Or, to be creative, some Key clicks, some Jet whistles, some Tongue rams, some Pitch bends or some Microtones.
Then you can try to play and sing simultaneously, or to produce air sounds.
And that's pretty much all.
Not convinced yet? Think bagpipes...
-
Ahh..the illusive "tone" quest..
Well this may get you into therapy.
Sounds I wanted to capture:
SteelyDan-Rikki Dont Loose That Number --Jeff Baxter
Any track Larry Carlton did for them wonderful tone.
Queen: various..May had a very unique tone.
Kenny Burrell with Jimmy Smith..this is the essence of Jazz Guitar
Some of Clapton and of course Jimi
Best blues..Mike Bloomfield with Butterfield
Best surprise..Albert King used my Fender Twin (ears ringing for days)
My music degree is on a wall hiding a coffee stain..It finally did me some good.
-
Every time I've found myself frustrated with my sound the real culprit has been my playing. And that can lead to fatigue with the instrument in general...
You say you like solo guitar...do you play any? If not, maybe time to try.
-
Playing guitar since 1968. Only acoustic from then until 1990. Began adding electrics at that point, and archtops since 1991. Result, I went from only flattops to more archtops than not in 58 years. I'm not one-genre focused. I avoid boredom by:
1/ Embracing variety. That means plural guitars & amps and they don't *have* to be expensive. Even one thing played on an electric archtop, acoustic archtop, ES-335, Telecaster, flattop, gypsy jazz box, and flattop jumbo not only all sound different but each guitar's characteristics make you play a given piece somewhat differently. A few differently-voiced amps add to the matrix of possibilities. In flattop acoustics, one guitar was fine. Once I embraced electric guitar, one instrument's confines made it apparent how kaleidoscopic the electrified world is, though I agree Bill Frisell gets a *lot* of tonal variety out of his Telecaster. But sometimes the reference sound in your head isn't available from the knobs on a given amp, or the pickups & strings on your guitar now.
2/ Add a 12 string (acoustic or electric) to your guitar armory. It helps wake you from time to time. You can get some cheap electric 12 strings, like Fender Squier and Danelectro. I haven't gone that route yet -- I have a Guild jumbo 12 and a Franklin luthier-grade repro of Leadbelly's Stella 12 string. Right there, two entirely different acoustic 12 sounds.
3/ From the beginning, I never tried to sound like someone else. I have thousands of albums to listen to even without streaming, so I might play songs from well-known performers, but I never had an objective to copy anyone's sound, in any genre. What other people have done ranges from interesting to inspiring, but striving for duplication is completely uninteresting to me. THAT would be boring. I always thought I'd rather seek my inner John Fahey -- i.e. surface my idiosyncrasies like he did his -- than try to copy Wes, Chet, Pass, Robbie Robertson, Leo Kottke, Django or anyone else.
4/ You can go down a pedals & effects rabbit hole. I don't think you need to do that, though it's an inexpensive way to widen the range of expression possible to extract from one guitar. I keep a few pedals around mostly to explore them, not to copy anyone else's pedalboard or sound. Could be for you but don't worry if it's not.
Overall, whether it's through instruments variety, amps variety or just focusing on what you have, augmented by more variety in techniques, more "vocabulary" will help make you more interesting to you.
Phil
-
What is "The answer no one wants to hear?" for 800, Alex
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
Eric on a Gibson! Originally Posted by wolflen
-
Your tone you achieve is in your mind. How to achieve that is by finding different tools to shape it how you want to hear it.
But the basic tone in fingerprint,and I have found that just playing without amplification best.
That way you are in control of all of the dynamics,etc.
Solid body,semi hollow,hollow,scale length are what you feel most comfortable with.And will affect the tone, but it still is you no matter what you choose.
Reply With Quote
Interesting Acoustic-Electric 7-String
Today, 06:32 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos