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Fine, point taken... but it's hardly controversial to say that when people play exercises, they often don't sound musical, is it? - which is pretty much what I said but very ineptly.
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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06-08-2025 02:46 PM
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No it’s not. So why would there be any expectation that they are? So if you have criticisms, offer it on the basis by which the playing was offered. Originally Posted by Mick-7
For example — Hey, Mick. I notice this is a continuous eighth note exercise and your eighth notes aren’t continuous. What’s up with that?
If someone is posting themselves playing exercises. Evaluate them as exercises.
If you’d like to offer someone a compliment, it’s perfectly simple to do so without contrasting them to the less satisfying playing of others.
Hey Graham! That was super musical.
See how easy that was?
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We're on different planets, obviously. I've watched them. I'm not incorrect. It was only on one of the tunes anyway. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
(I'd say he's a bit younger. Mind you, at this age who's counting?
)
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I’ll need your exact age, a picture of you with your hair color visible, and a video of the last time you played with a piano player so I know how to evaluate your criticism. Originally Posted by ragman1
We're on different planets, obviously. I've watched them. I'm not incorrect. It was only on one of the tunes anyway.
(I'd say he's a bit younger. Mind you, at this age who's counting? )
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I think you cheated a helluva lot more than I did! Originally Posted by Mick-7
Anyway I never claimed to be able to do it 100%.
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Yes, that's probably true, I will try again, and I apologize profusely for saying that your example sounded musical - I offended Peter. Originally Posted by grahambop
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I didn’t object to that part! Originally Posted by Mick-7
Yes, that's probably true, I will try again, and I apologize profusely for saying that your example sounded musical - I offended Peter.
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Hey man, for what it’s worth, you can call Graham musical all you want, but what offended me was your need to do that by calling everyone else unmusical. Originally Posted by Mick-7
Yes, that's probably true, I will try again, and I apologize profusely for saying that your example sounded musical - I offended Peter.
And also for what it’s worth also, I believe Graham was making tongue in cheek reference to the fact that even your compliment of him was a teeeeeeny bit backhanded.
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Perhaps you missed the - Originally Posted by pamosmusic
- at the end of my sentence.
I actually appreciate you praising my impersonation of a pompous know-it-all. Now that I've perfected that persona, I think I'll permanently retire it (or at least try to).
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Honestly I wouldn’t really expect anyone to pull this off well with 100% continuous notes, it really is that difficult. Unless perhaps you compose it first as an etude and learn it (actually there are benefits from doing that, although I haven’t really done it myself).
The thing is, if you hesitate/stumble, do you stop, or do you leave an 8th rest or play a quarter note or something and just keep going? I went for the latter and just kept going.
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I've... forgotten... what Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Well, it's a matter of tempo, right? At what tempo do the mistakes start breeding? (or my yardstick, which is, at what tempo do my lines resemble gibberish). That tempo is too challenging for you, find a slower one and work on increasing it. Originally Posted by grahambop
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If I blank out while making a chord change, I stop and restart from the previous chord. I try to work on those blind spots. That's one of the advantages of playing with a metronome rather than a backing track. The problem is usually not the chord-in-the-moment but the target chord. I sometimes just play the scale of the target chord around the fretboard while paying attention to the visual references of different chord tones (intervallically). Then try again. Originally Posted by grahambop
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In the midst of all the Mick-bashing, I would just like to thank him for suggesting the 8th-note exercise, because it motivated me to really tackle it properly for once.
I’d only really dabbled in it before, but the discipline of having to record it made me tough it out.
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yes that’s true, you can always slow it down. Originally Posted by Mick-7
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I mean yeah. Me too. Originally Posted by grahambop
But lord yall.
Be cool to people.
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It's very easy to just play 8th notes at most tempos if you don't have to make the changes, and you have ireal pro to tell you when to start and stop picking strings. But that's not the exercise nor is productive.
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Wait.. are you saying that every single melodic line you play is something you have never played before or never heard before? Most players would said almost everything they play involves melodic ideas and phrases they already knew. Listening to your clips, I think you could stand to memorize a good set of jazz phrases and vocabulary. Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Threads like this are often started by people who like to talk but who actually don't like to play that much. People who basically want to play and get better find that almost any exercise, practiced with intention and mindfulness, will help their playing. I can't think of anything I have tried that hasn't helped, but then my playing is so "blah" that anything helps it, even just stopping for a while! Originally Posted by charlieparker
Seriously, you can easily sort out on here who are the players and who are the talkers. The players seems to think any systematic, intentional exercise addressing a specific piece of the musical puzzle is helpful.
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I was able to do it "continuously" for a few times back the first time I got into it some years ago. BUT the exercise is so effective at helping the player orient to where he is in the form, how the harmonic structure builds, and what notes might make for interesting melodic ideas, I found the more I practiced the exercise the more I found off-ramps for little excursions of.... musical phrases. Originally Posted by grahambop
That;s one of the thing I like about this exercise is the way it grounds the player in the harmonic environment and flow of the piece. So obviously the idea I suppose is to "graduate" from it not so much by leaving it behind as simply building out and forward.
Let me join the crew here that appreciates your contributions. I always enjoy hearing you play, and you always make very good sense when you talk about what's involved in playing bop.
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FWIW, I found your continuous 8th note lines musical. I was hearing the changes and some nice chromatic connections. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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It appears that eliminating all rhythmic variety just does work for me, when I try to do so, my playing gets worse rather than better, Stella by Starlight becomes Stella by Torchlight. But maybe I'll try this slower, 150bpm is kind of quick for continuous 8th notes.
Stella by Starlight solo @150bpm - Box.com
Stella by Torchlight:
Last edited by Mick-7; 06-08-2025 at 08:56 PM.
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My exact statement was "I do not play memorized licks." I did a fair amount of transcribing in the past but didn't try to memorize the lines, only play them. I just try to play the lines that occur to me, my translation of them is sometimes inadequate. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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It’s not that it doesn’t work for you. It’s that you’re not good at it yet. Why would you abandon something like this on the first try? Originally Posted by Mick-7
It appears that eliminating all rhythmic variety just does work for me, when I try to do so, my playing gets worse rather than better, Stella by Starlight becomes Stella by Torchlight. But maybe I'll try this slower, 150bpm is kind of quick for continuous 8th notes.
Stella by Starlight solo @150bpm - Box.com
Stella by Torchlight:
Stick with it for a few weeks.
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The cerebral mindset that likes continuous 8ths and that sort of thing is NOT the same mindset that hears and plays musically evocative phrases.
A problem with a lot of jazz is precisely that, that it thinks good musical phrases are somehow old-fashioned and prefers lines that seem to be written by a computer.
Before anyone says 'do both' I'm not sure both are possible, not at the same time anyway. One knocks out the other.
When learning jazz, retain your sense of beauty. Don't let them turn you into a line machine with little or no soul.
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