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I think that the REAL MAGIC is missing these days from all music, no matter the style! And I believe that what John M. is talking about when he says "where's the blood?" There are many more qualified technicians whether playing trad Jazz forms, or any style of music these days. But where are the innovators, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Joe Zawinul, Jaco, even in Rock like Jimi Hendrix, Sting, etc. The current music situation is abominable at best, and doesn't allow or reward any innovation. Granted Pat Metheny, Wayne Shorter, even Sting are still producing product, but where's the new young blood?
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07-23-2014 02:07 PM
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Good lord is there a lot of Fogeyism in this thread.
new blood:
you gotta dig a little. New music isn't going to knock on your door and introduce itself.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
heh
i see lots of phenomenal young players near me.
i also see lots of tip buckets.
and i see it in virtually all genres of live music that i frequent, not just jazz. the jazz cats don't seem to be as hip to merch tables as the rockers, though.
most of the gigs i see these days involve a new kind of social compact, wherein bar owners allow bands to help them sell beer, and in return, allow the bands to sell t-shirts.
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I don't get it. You think these guys aren't having a hard time making money, too? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Most of my rocker or avant garde friends make less than I do, because they don't have the luxury of playing restaurant gigs a couple nights a week in addition to their shows.
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@ecj, I hadn't thought about your point above. Rockers I think would have a worse time getting small gigs than jazzers I would think.
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It's time for jazz to step out of the 70's and into the 80's.
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Back on topic- John is saying, America, do something! What are we supposed to do? I don't think he understands the global impact of hip-hop. It's a global culture. It's also the end of American exceptionalism and that's fine by me.
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Originally Posted by ecj
Of course they struggle.
My point is, here's some young folks embracing some modern sounds and playing some great jazz. I heard people bitching "where's the new blood?" Well here it is! Buy their records and go to their shows!
Im so tired of people lamenting the death of jazz who have no records released after 1970 in their collection. There's great music out there right now. Its our job to support it!
I dig the $ I make playing "misty" too. But it's not what I WANT to play.
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Here's a young Jazz artist view of the recording industry
Christian Scott: I?m a Free Agent | iRock Jazz
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Short sighted execs, bean counters and lawyers killed the recording industry. Radio programming, countless re-issuing of the same material and an absolute technophobia unless they themselves could control it 100%. I'm not exactly mourning that loss either....it was purely self inflicted. That's at the macro level.
The micro level is something else. Dj's and karaoke have largely taken up all the space in my locale. It's an economics thing.....you can pay a DJ 100$ a night where with a band you have to shell out at least 500$ in order to have the band show up.
JM's thinking is flawed in one aspect: even in his hay-day, most musicians couldn't survive w/o doing commercial music. Barney Kessel is all over 60's AM radio hits. Wes Montgomery was largely broke until he added strings and started doing pop music covers
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I didn't hear him say anything about side work or teaching being bad, did I miss something? Originally Posted by jds1978
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Must've glossed over those posts. I think McLaughlin's points stand for anyone trying to play modern instrumental music. He even put out some kind of techno/jazz stuff a while ago (endlessly inventive, even in his 70s). Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
There's a lot of new, kick ass jazz out there. Those guys are having a hell of a time making a living, too, though. When you talk to musicians about how awful touring is these days, it's pretty sad. Most of my friends who have gone on tour within the last 2 years actually lost money.
I think DJs kind of killed the live music scene. It's simple arithmetic: hire one guy for $500, or 4 guys for $2,000? Or, the 4 guys sell their product for $500 to compete and end up making $50 for a 4-hour gig. The difference in cost between hiring a DJ and a live band (other than a solo artist) is insane.
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The above comment is 100% correct! I think what seems to be mostly gone these days is the apprenticeship aspect. Most of the greats worked for other great music leaders in their field. There still is some going on but w/ the music industry in chaos and the lack of monetary musical alternatives (Clubs, Jingles,etc.) I'm not sure I'll see it in my lifetime.
There are plenty of fine young musicians out there as stated in the above videos. The difference is there's no real music scene as in the past to embrace them. I think w/ the advent of technology it's become focused on the visual more than the actual audio part. And there in lies the real problem! As visually appealing Jimi Hendrix, Jaco P, etc. were, the real magic lied in their audio (compositions,playing). As my friend says "THERE'S NO NECK IN IT".
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some of those guys are really good, yep. I think JM was aiming a little higher for them in terms of audience size and number of cities to play in though. He saw jazz go from the funky little clubs to big festivals and halls. Nothing wrong with playing in small NYC dives of course, but I think JM would consider that to be a step back if that's just about all there is. Just reading between the lines. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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That was my sense too. Not 'jazz is dead' but that 'jazz doesn't pay' nowadays. JM laments that. He wishes there were more institutional support for it. Originally Posted by fumblefingers
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I feel that maybe part of the problem is that jazz as a creative music rather than as brunch wallpaper (no disrespect intended) is process/experiment rather than product or art object. While I find that aspect of jazz endlessly intriguing, my impression is that a lot of people want to be entertained or impressed by music - that's not always what jazz is about - certainly not what the best contemporary players are about to my ears ...
I find it hard to believe that a jazz band is ever competing with a DJ for work - the requirement from the booker is surely completely different(?)
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Right.
Again, im talking about the defeatist attitudes displayed by some of our members, not JM.
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Yup, I wasn't defeated until I was a few thousand $ in the red in an attempt to play jazz for a profit. I had to accept that the market just wasn't there.
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JM said something about funky-jazz. What is that?
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All kinds of funky jazz - Mercy, Mercy, Mercy. The Jody Grind. Cold Duck Time. Listen Here. Cantaloupe Island, Watermelon Man. Marcus Miller. David Sanborn. Earlier Mingus churchy stuff was even considered funky. Cannonball.
Funky jazz has been around since before they called it jazz or even jass. Buddy Bolden played The Funky Butt in the Funky Butt tavern before they had the technology to record music.
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or maybeIt's better than blowing tax dollars on drones.
JAZZ DRONES
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i freaking love those space robotsWell, it's hard to argue that point when you have Smokey the Bear on the left and Mr. Famous on the right. At least the two in the middle had the decency to cover the keep their alien environmental gear in place.
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Ouch! Originally Posted by Space Pickle
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^^^
Jazz is a jam band? You just about laid down the Jam Band Manifesto there. I've heard some of this 'contemporary' music. Enough with the long intros. Get to the point once in a while.Last edited by Stevebol; 07-25-2014 at 12:06 AM.
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