Modes on Blue Bossa

[starjasmine]

The point I thought I was trying to make is that everyone needs a how to approach.

Fair enough.

But a lot of the gig of teaching adults is finding ways to get away from discussions of the whys and wherefores.

Not disagreeing, but I'm not sure I'd age-qualify it so much as qualify it by experience and motivation.
- Beginners and casual players need the how-to almost to the exclusion of the "why it works"
- Students interested in progressing to a more advanced level MIGHT want the "why." "Might" allows for the case of great players who don't know or care about theory. At a certain point, tho, the majority of my more serious students find the "why" to be a helpful framework into which the "how" fits.

That said, I've had 13-year-old students who practice their a-- off, progress rapidly and want to know "why" so they can apply "how" to more than just the situation I taught the "how" in. I've had adult students who didn't care about any of that and just wanted me to show them "scales and licks I can use."

My experience as a teacher might be a little skewed because after I got tired of teaching just anybody who asked, I tried to limit my teaching practice to the more serious students. I had this luxury by virtue of a day gig that allowed me to turn down torture gigs and parents using private lessons as a babysitting substitute.

[pamosmusic]

I honestly don't get where people with actual interests come from. When you deal with randos they never care about anything and are just foo of foos TikTok type of people.

This is happening to me at a summer program where everyone there has elected to be there for the arts and had to pass a screening process.

The thing is, people who elect to come somewhere to play music, enjoy actually playing music. Not just talking about playing music and being told how to do it correctly.

Incredible, I know.

I also would just throw out for a moment that maybe you should try teaching. You might learn something. Quickest way to be reminded that you don’t know everything is to have a fourteen year old raise their hand while you’re speaking and say “respectfully, and I get what you’re saying, but I think that’s dumb.”

Which is a thing that happened to me on Thursday.

[Strat-itis]

^ I would like to teach. I'm not confident in my ability to get work since a shop isn't gonna hire me. I would have to work up a few freelance students. Maybe if I shred hard enough I could get some online students but that isn't my forte either. I could try!

[pamosmusic]

^ I would like to teach. I'm not confident in my ability to get work since a shop isn't gonna hire me. I would have to work up a few freelance students. Maybe if I shred hard enough I could get some online students but that isn't my forte either. I could try!

Well. Shredding isn’t how you get students. Competence is certainly part of it, but patience and flexibility are where it’s at.

[Strat-itis]

^ I'm positive I could teach well. I guess I would just have to grass roots it and go around hassling people and build up a couple students.

[pamosmusic]

^ I'm positive I could teach well. I guess I would just have to grass roots it and go around hassling people and build up a couple students.

I’m positive I would be a good carpenter.

[deacon Mark]

I understand modes seem to be the way to go but I have completely abandoned them for the most part. While I know them as such I really find approaching each chord separately to be a better option. This is because it gives me the juicy chord tones, but also working shapes based on triads of the chord. Once the ear gets this ingrained in the tune then to me it becomes much less academic and more of playing familiar things and adding interesting variations.

To me Blue Bossa is quite easy to blow on and one can go a long way on very little than staying around Cmin, understand that Fm is pretty close. However, if you start looking at chord shapes and then triad lines against them that might even make large leaps on the fingerboard, I think it opens up some more individual stye playing. Howard Roberts would do this all the time, try and make huge leaps on fingerboard and it even sets up a different rhythmic offset.

Cm triads and fm triads, of course then uses the usual substitution chords for these too.

[Strat-itis]

I’m positive I would be a good carpenter.

Ur just always mad. Mad, mad, mad. One of my former guitar teachers even told me I was a good teacher when I showed him some jazz.

If you think you can build yourself up by knocking other people down, good luck!!

[pamosmusic]

Ur just always mad. Mad, mad, mad. One of my former guitar teachers even told me I was a good teacher when I showed him some jazz.

If you think you can build yourself up by knocking other people down, good luck!!

You got me pegged.

[AllanAllen]

Ur just always mad. Mad, mad, mad. One of my former guitar teachers even told me I was a good teacher when I showed him some jazz.

If you think you can build yourself up by knocking other people down, good luck!!

People generally don’t like someone waltzing up with zero experience saying they can do their job better.

Bob Odenkirk | Mr.Show | “Look Lady” - YouTube

[Strat-itis]

Bro. Calm down with the demonizing of me. I never said that! I was saying I'd do a good job, not I would supercede Peter.

[pamosmusic]

Bro. Calm down with the demonizing of me. I never said that! I was saying I'd do a good job, not I would supercede Peter.

And I never said you wouldn't do a good job, yet here we are.

[rpjazzguitar]

One strategy that I've found helpful with regard to a lot of theory is this. Simply giving up.

I'm not recommending it. I didn't do it lightly. But after decades of trying to sound different by using theoretical devices, I realized I might as well stop bothering.

But you don't have to be harmonically fascinating to play a decent melody through changes. Be nice if you could, but you don't have to.

I'm not sure what someone in the OP's position should do. Taking smaller bites of the apple and chewing thoroughly?

So, start with the whole thing in C natural minor and consider using a B when you get to the G7(something). Then, work on chord tones. Chew. Then slowly work on extensions, so you can hear the 9th over the Cm, for example. Always use a backing track and don't forget that there are 12 keys.

If you need more, and more interesting, notes to make a solo sound good -- that's a trap. There's a video of Jimmy Bruno sounding fantastic playing only the notes of Bbmaj7 against Bbmaj7.

When you have all that down pretty well, you can face the future, which will be full of confusing possibilities all from players who sound great and got there different ways.

[Strat-itis]

And I never said you wouldn't do a good job, yet here we are.

[AllanAllen]

When you have all that down pretty well, you can face the future, which will be full of confusing possibilities all from players who sound great and got there different ways.

Big, powerful advice here. If you can’t make C Eb G Bb sound good over Blue Bossa, you won’t make C Dorian sound any better.

I’ve been converted to rhythm is more important than notes.

[Strat-itis]

It came to me what's wrong about the rhythm is more important than notes argument. It assumes that being able to hit all your desired notes is given. While when your rhythm is poor, all the rhythms are off. Well, what would happen if all your notes were off, how good would that be? :P

[pamosmusic]

It came to me what's wrong about the rhythm is more important than notes argument. It assumes that being able to hit all your desired notes is given. While when your rhythm is poor, all the rhythms are off. Well, what would happen if all your notes were off, how good would that be? :P

Play the wrong note in a trumpet hit and probably no one notices. Play the right note early and you get fired. No worse feeling in music than being the only person playing during a stop time. Doesn’t matter if you’re playing the right chord.

The one I use with kids is to have them clap in time. I stomp in time and then ask them if I was doing it wrong. They say “no.”

Then I have them clap in time and I clap out of time, then ask them if I was doing it wrong. They say “yes.”

[Strat-itis]

If rhythm is more important than notes then this is the best music ever. But it's not. :P

[rpjazzguitar]

I won't get into which is more important. But I'll say this.

I'd rather hear a simple line played with great time than a complicated line played with bad time. Or anything else played with bad time.

[Cunamara]

Hi Bart

So, I think there's a big chunk missing from most guitarist' upbringing is an understanding how to bring out the sound of chords their playing. This is important for any style of music actually, but in jazz it comes very much to a head.

Right here, this is it. I'd boil it down to two notes- the guide tones. 3rd and 7th. Gotta be able to find those in your line for every chord, reliably and consistently, before moving on to permutations of the extensions and tensions. The guide tones will attach your solo to the harmony of the song, make your line sound like they are part of the song. Every jazz master has come to terms with this. It ain't sexy, it ain't "hip" and it gets overlooked. And it's essential.

This weekend I went to a seminar with Stanley Jordan* and happened to play Blue Bossa with him. He emphasized not only the importance of the guide tones but also making sure to address the note that changes the most with each chord to provide movement and momentum to your solo. For example, when the song changes into the ii-V-I to Db, Gb is the note that is the most significant tonality change over the Ebmin; the next most significant note is the Db.

*BTW, Stanley is a very very bright guy. Degree in music from Princeton, graduate degree in music therapy, 40+ years as a brilliant musician and able to discuss exactly what he does and why with really good insight. His optimal learning seminar is pretty interesting, if you get a chance.

[Cunamara]

BTW, what is the purpose of modes? It is the same set of notes (CDEFGAB versus DEFGABC versus EFGABCD versus FGABCDE versus GABCDEF, etc.). On face value, modes are just a slightly different arrangement of the same information and add nothing new. The point of modes is putting the chord tones on the strong beats, which improves the coherence of one's lines: C d E f G a B rhythmically emphasizes the chord tones of Cmaj7, D e F g A b C emphasizes the chord tones of Dmin7, etc.

The ear wants to hear some resolution on the strong beats, as also happens with bebop scales putting the resolution on the one of the following bar by adding a beat to the scale by making it 8 notes instead of 7.

[ragman1]

BTW, what is the purpose of modes?

Classically and theoretically probably not much. There's not a lot of mileage in splitting a C major scale run into Dorian, Mixolydian and Ionian.

But in a definitely modal tune it's worthwhile stipulating that it's in, say, Dorian (like So What) or other specific modes for specific effects and obscure Wayne Shorter-type progressions.

In fact, a lot of players would need help for that sort of thing.

[Tomcat]

The notes are the same in your example but sets of intervals they create are much different. Comparing C ionian with D dorian makes little sense. Rather compare C ionian with C dorian to hear the difference. So CDEFGAH vs CDEbFGABb

[James W]

Classically and theoretically probably not much.

Rubbish. Talk about dismissing hundreds of years worth of music which is modal.

[grahambop]

Modes are all Greek to me.