6 months into jazz - overwhelmed and not sure where to focus. Advice?

[onezeho]

Ah, finally got onezeho's mom's to play.

OK, so as others have said, the first take, perfectly fine, straight off the page, sounds like you're reading it. All good, continuing on.

Latest clip-- ok, so here's what I'm hearing--my advice always worth exactly what you're paying for it

Im hearing hesitation and uncertainty. Might be the new key, might be the faster tempo, a little "red light syndrome." Very normal issue type stuff, you're going to be fine (Congratulations, you're normal!) What that uncertainty does is make it sound like you're fishing for the melody instead of embellishing it or interpreting it. Its an interesting thing. I hear it in my own playing all the time, when I don't really know a tune.

Id be interested in hearing you play it again-- simpler, like in the first clip-' no added notes yet-- but with the looser feel you're going for in the second clip. Relax the time a little...can you slide into a note or two? Something to make it more expressive without really adding to it. Ill try to post a video of what I mean too.

You're absolutely right about all of it. I switched from Em to Gm because the backing track I'm using (bass and drums only, as recommended) is in Gm. I explored that key very quickly today and went straight to recording

The tempo is also a bit fast for where I am. The real issue is that I don't see Gm across the whole fretboard yet - I don't have a clear map of it - so I was decorating as best I could: chromatic notes and nearby notes I could see. Not really embellishing the melody, more just... reaching for whatever was close.

Would love to see your video. And I'll try what you suggested

[mr. beaumont]

So this is just really simple, but a way of playing i think you could benefit from.

Im old fashioned when it comes to this stuff, so I'd obviously recommend learning to sing the melody first, if you haven't.

It cuts off mid thought at the end because I edited out the dog barking, but I didn't have anything else important to say.

[onezeho]

So this is just really simple, but a way of playing i think you could benefit from.

Im old fashioned when it comes to this stuff, so I'd obviously recommend learning to sing the melody first, if you haven't.

It cuts off mid thought at the end because I edited out the dog barking, but I didn't have anything else important to say.

Nice! Thanks for the video, I'll give it a try

[ragman1]

They all want to help you don't they? My god.

Wrong key
Too fast
Too many notes

Go back to your metronome in Em at 70. You can get the swing feel in an instant by doing this:

Play it right through then come back. Don't post anything that needs an excuse. Wait till it's good.

[Mick-7]

You're absolutely right about all of it. I switched from Em to Gm because the backing track I'm using (bass and drums only, as recommended) is in Gm. I explored that key very quickly today and went straight to recording

The tempo is also a bit fast for where I am. The real issue is that I don't see Gm across the whole fretboard yet - I don't have a clear map of it - so I was decorating as best I could: chromatic notes and nearby notes I could see. Not really embellishing the melody, more just... reaching for whatever was close.

Your backing track doesn't swing - time feel is too straight - so if you follow it you won't either.

Try this one:

[onezeho]

They all want to help you don't they? My god.

Wrong key
Too fast
Too many notes

Go back to your metronome in Em at 70. You can get the swing feel in an instant by doing this:

Play it right through then come back. Don't post anything that needs an excuse. Wait till it's good.

Just trying to play less mechanically and evenly I still have a lot to learn

[ragman1]

Just trying to play less mechanically and evenly I still have a lot to learn

Small steps, my friend, and less verbalisation. Anyone can live on words. Just do the next step. You're used to Em and the tune. Let it swing, no more than that. We can put in other stuff presently. If you want to, of course.

[Woody Sound]

A LOT of detailed info here. Sometimes the littlest very basic things can turn into big "Aha, that's it!" moments when starting out. For example, do you play standard I-IV-V 12-bar blues changes? Have you to gone to V7/ii in bar 8? Substitute ii-V7 for V7?

[Reg]

yea... you need to decide what you want to do...

Your a beginner... Your not going to be able to play in a jazz style for a while.
You need to develop some skills on your instrument... and some basic musical theory.

You can play by ear... but it becomes difficult to repeat without organization. Form(s) help organize the space... and "Harmonic Function" or how chords and notes have different roles in different Keys. Tonic, Dominant and sub-dominant.

It's not life or death etc...

Forms are just the overall structure or organization... of the space that music fits into. Sections of tunes usually labeled with... ABA AABA AB etc...

Harmonic Function is just organization of how chords and notes react to each other in different Keys.
Tonic...Subdominant and Dominant

The technical thing... well it's takes organized work. Most don't get there without.... doing the work.

Simple daily schedule,

1) Warm up... usually have a few drills that rotate. Spider drills, nothing better for developing fingers and picking.
Scales, Arps. all mentioned before. Chords

2) Scales and chords... basic scales and chords derived from those scales

3) Sight reading... can be as simple as reading through standards melodies and changes

4) learning tunes... which should also be learning the basic rhythmic styles of tunes...Swing, Latin etc...

Get a rhythmic source, drum genious or electric piano with rhythmic tracks... app. etc.

If it was easy... we would all be pros. But you don't need to be a pro to develop skills to play jazz at the amateur level and perform etc.. have fun even make money.

[joe2758]

But Reg, couldn't you already basically shred before you mastered that stuff? Doesn't anything come before that?

[Woody Sound]

In recent years, I'm finding that I only need one scale , "The Chromatic scale".

If you know the chord tones, intervals, arps etc on the fretboard. All the notes needed are in the "The Chromatic scale" somewhere, it's just a matter of knowing where they are when you need them.

Obviously, it's not for everyone, but it works for me.

Attachment 133127

I too use the chromatic scale as the basis for most everthing. But I'm curious as to how you finger those examples. For runs and actually playing the scale, I generally use a 4-note per string pattern, shifting between strings.

[GuyBoden]

I too use the chromatic scale as the basis for most everthing. But I'm curious as to how you finger those examples. For runs and actually playing the scale, I generally use a 4-note per string pattern, shifting between strings.

It's very positional, but easy because there are only five patterns, and then one pattern for each five strings. It's then repeated after 5 strings.

First, I think you need to have spent many years getting to know Chord tones, Intervals and Arps.

If you look at the fretboard diagram (below), from the highest string you will see 5 distinct string lines, which are repeated again a semi tone higher at the low string.


Warning: this is P4 tuning. Standard tuning is slightly different.

EDIT: NOT FOR BEGINNERS

[Mick-7]

I too use the chromatic scale as the basis for most everthing. But I'm curious as to how you finger those examples. For runs and actually playing the scale, I generally use a 4-note per string pattern, shifting between strings.

The 5 fret finger span encourages one to play 5 notes per string. For example, take a diminished scale and fill in the missing notes:

[Christian Miller]

Nah three fingers and the truth. Grab and whack for the win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AllanAllen]

But you don't need to be a pro to develop skills to play jazz at the amateur level and perform etc.. have fun even make money.

OP, I’m proof of this. My mediocre chops are out there sometimes 3 gigs a week. Getting paid to play jazz with a trio.

You don’t have to be as good as Reg to get out there. You don’t even have to be as good as me, lol.

[JazzKatua]

This comment is so right, but is possibly of less use at this site.

People here are amateurs and don't have the time to fix their technique. They're stuck with what they have.

Re the idea of ingraining bad habits, that is so true.
We are essentially at the mercy of bad teachers/our own lack of knowledge/ignorance when we set out on playing - which is why the majority of self-taught payers have poor technique.
It's one thing to be a hack as a hobbyist - that's expected and perfectly normal.
The shocking reality is that MANY pros are hardly any better.
They themselves are victims of their poor technique that they ingrained a long time ago. They don't tend to fix that though - they're still stuck with stupid positions, inability to mute, stupid Gypsy positions, Benson etc etc etc. Endless incompetence.
What's even worse is that pros with that faulty technique will then pass that "virus" onto their students by coaching the student to use that same shitty technique.
It's so awful and the "virus" replicates through the students.

Can you show us your technique then? I'd like to see it.

[pamosmusic]

Don’t hold your breath

[joe2758]

"They don't tend to fix that though - they're still stuck with stupid positions, inability to mute, stupid Gypsy positions, Benson etc etc etc. Endless incompetence."

...wut?

[joe2758]

I feel there is a 1% chance this person can play

[Reg]

But Reg, couldn't you already basically shred before you mastered that stuff? Doesn't anything come before that?

Yes and no... Shorter answer.

Had piano lessons as... before elementary school with grandmother... then Baker books then in elementary school had lessons with B-3 play, brother who gigged and played church etc.. yea I put in the time everyday LOL.. playing gigs while in elementary school LOL.

When I went to berklee... yea I could shred, but when there for arranging and comp etc...

But I gave lessons to guitarist back in 70's and many of them did the work... It probable helps with teacher...but all the info is out there and its free LOL. Generally after a month of actually getting technique, fingerings and frettboard together... there are usually results.

The comping thing is personally much more useful than soloing etc.. Both with work and developing solos and playing in a jazz style.

[emanresu]

The fun thing with "get a teacher" is that you can try 10 different teachers and get 10 way different approaches.
My pet peeve language vs. music thread - AI is a very good teacher for language. Sucks at teaching music big time.

Anyway. To OP. In that time (6 months from starting with it), you probably have more unknown unknowns in all jazz than you would dare to imagine. A good teacher would indeed give you the info quickly.
Here "what to focus on?" question answered by people who doesn't know you that well is probably not the fastest way to reach your goals.
They don't know you, you don't know them.

[ragman1]

I taught for a time, individually and at a school. There's no question, older people are hardest to teach because they can already play and they find it quite hard to assimilate new things. One guy had a strum that he used all the time and I showed him how to change it, make it more interesting, etc. He played with it for a bit then went back to his old one again. Not much you can do, and he was only 40-something. But was still a good player though.

The best one I had was a young guy, had his own band, and wanted to learn jazz sounds, chords, and so on. Whatever I gave him he learned diligently and after about a month invited me to a gig. And there he was jazzing it up like crazy. Very rewarding, I tell you. Nothing like it.

[ragman1]

I used to ask them 'I can teach, not very difficult, but can you learn?'. That was the question. Amazing how few people really know how to learn.

[Tal_175]

For some students, it takes a very good teacher to be better than no teacher at all. For others, any teacher is better than no teacher. Moreover, there isn’t a unified or consistent pedagogy in jazz education, which means there are as many approaches as there are teachers.

Another issue is the tendency to treat teachers as all-round experts in every corner of jazz: harmony, technique, chord-melody arrangements, fretboard mastery, repertoire, vocabulary, trio playing, and so on. It’s unlikely that any one teacher is the right person for you in all of these areas. For some, it might make sense to pick an area of improvement or two, then look for the right person to help you with these skills.

[ragman1]

I never used a schedule or an itinerary. I showed them what they wanted to know and let them find out for themselves what other skills were necessary to make it work. The determined ones did just that, the followers didn't cotton on too quick.

Some people you have to lead, some you have to drive. It's a fact.