6 months into jazz - overwhelmed and not sure where to focus. Advice?

[ragman1]

onezeho -

You're silent. I suspect you think I'm making you jump through hoops. I'm not, it's up to you. This was the last request anyway, after that it's in your court.

You played AL beautifully, right from the sheet. My point after that was simple, it needs some personal input. The computer can play from the sheet but it can't personalise it. AI could probably produce a facsimile but that's still mechanical. So can you play the tune with some expression?

This is important because I doubt if it can be learned from any book. They could give you something to copy but then you're back to square one.

So try personalising it with your own expression in your own way. This is what improvisation is and it makes up a major part of jazz playing, that's the point. If you can do this you can do everything else. But without this anything else you do won't be worth much, however technically skilled you become.

I did one yesterday. First take, probably never repeated exactly the same again. Yours doesn't have to the first take, only post what you like. If you don't want to do it here at least do it for yourself. It matters.

[GuyBoden]

In recent years, I'm finding that I only need one scale , "The Chromatic scale".

If you know the chord tones, intervals, arps etc on the fretboard. All the notes needed are in the "The Chromatic scale" somewhere, it's just a matter of knowing where they are when you need them.

Obviously, it's not for everyone, but it works for me.

[onezeho]

onezeho -

You're silent. I suspect you think I'm making you jump through hoops. I'm not, it's up to you. This was the last request anyway, after that it's in your court.

You played AL beautifully, right from the sheet. My point after that was simple, it needs some personal input. The computer can play from the sheet but it can't personalise it. AI could probably produce a facsimile but that's still mechanical. So can you play the tune with some expression?

This is important because I doubt if it can be learned from any book. They could give you something to copy but then you're back to square one.

So try personalising it with your own expression in your own way. This is what improvisation is and it makes up a major part of jazz playing, that's the point. If you can do this you can do everything else. But without this anything else you do won't be worth much, however technically skilled you become.

I did one yesterday. First take, probably never repeated exactly the same again. Yours doesn't have to the first take, only post what you like. If you don't want to do it here at least do it for yourself. It matters.

Yes, I can record my version of AL. Actually, I've never played from sheet music before, and everything I've heard has always been played the way I saw it. The problem is that when I play by ear, I often get lost in the song and miss chord changes. So I thought it would be good to understand how the original sounds, and then start adding embellishments. I'll record it a little later!

[pamosmusic]

… it's just a matter of knowing where they are when you need them.

Well … yeah

[GuyBoden]

Well … yeah

Yes, it's very simple, in theory.

[ragman1]

Yes, I can record my version of AL. Actually, I've never played from sheet music before, and everything I've heard has always been played the way I saw it. The problem is that when I play by ear, I often get lost in the song and miss chord changes. So I thought it would be good to understand how the original sounds, and then start adding embellishments. I'll record it a little later!

Oh, well, we'll be onto Giant Steps in no time!

I saw you'd selected the Cannonball Adderley version of AL. Now, the sax playing on that was very interesting. Not just the notes but the harmonies and the effect of his notes over the changes. Subtle stuff.

[Reg]

It's not just putting in the time....

It's organizing what you work on with the time.

[onezeho]

So can you play the tune with some expression?

Okay, now I feel a slight shame.. My vocabulary isn't very big yet.. Would appreciate comments

AL–impr-Gm-1.mp3

[pamosmusic]

Okay, now I feel a slight shame.. My vocabulary isn't very big yet.. Would appreciate comments

AL–impr-Gm-1.mp3

Dont sweat it, brother. Ragman likes to heckle from the cheap seats.

[mr. beaumont]

Ah, finally got onezeho's mom's to play.

OK, so as others have said, the first take, perfectly fine, straight off the page, sounds like you're reading it. All good, continuing on.

Latest clip-- ok, so here's what I'm hearing--my advice always worth exactly what you're paying for it

Im hearing hesitation and uncertainty. Might be the new key, might be the faster tempo, a little "red light syndrome." Very normal issue type stuff, you're going to be fine (Congratulations, you're normal!) What that uncertainty does is make it sound like you're fishing for the melody instead of embellishing it or interpreting it. Its an interesting thing. I hear it in my own playing all the time, when I don't really know a tune.

Id be interested in hearing you play it again-- simpler, like in the first clip-' no added notes yet-- but with the looser feel you're going for in the second clip. Relax the time a little...can you slide into a note or two? Something to make it more expressive without really adding to it. Ill try to post a video of what I mean too.

[onezeho]

Ah, finally got onezeho's mom's to play.

OK, so as others have said, the first take, perfectly fine, straight off the page, sounds like you're reading it. All good, continuing on.

Latest clip-- ok, so here's what I'm hearing--my advice always worth exactly what you're paying for it

Im hearing hesitation and uncertainty. Might be the new key, might be the faster tempo, a little "red light syndrome." Very normal issue type stuff, you're going to be fine (Congratulations, you're normal!) What that uncertainty does is make it sound like you're fishing for the melody instead of embellishing it or interpreting it. Its an interesting thing. I hear it in my own playing all the time, when I don't really know a tune.

Id be interested in hearing you play it again-- simpler, like in the first clip-' no added notes yet-- but with the looser feel you're going for in the second clip. Relax the time a little...can you slide into a note or two? Something to make it more expressive without really adding to it. Ill try to post a video of what I mean too.

You're absolutely right about all of it. I switched from Em to Gm because the backing track I'm using (bass and drums only, as recommended) is in Gm. I explored that key very quickly today and went straight to recording

The tempo is also a bit fast for where I am. The real issue is that I don't see Gm across the whole fretboard yet - I don't have a clear map of it - so I was decorating as best I could: chromatic notes and nearby notes I could see. Not really embellishing the melody, more just... reaching for whatever was close.

Would love to see your video. And I'll try what you suggested

[mr. beaumont]

So this is just really simple, but a way of playing i think you could benefit from.

Im old fashioned when it comes to this stuff, so I'd obviously recommend learning to sing the melody first, if you haven't.

It cuts off mid thought at the end because I edited out the dog barking, but I didn't have anything else important to say.

[onezeho]

So this is just really simple, but a way of playing i think you could benefit from.

Im old fashioned when it comes to this stuff, so I'd obviously recommend learning to sing the melody first, if you haven't.

It cuts off mid thought at the end because I edited out the dog barking, but I didn't have anything else important to say.

Nice! Thanks for the video, I'll give it a try

[brent.h]

OP, rewatch the video very carefully

5:03 watch the right hand
7:30 watch the right hand some more
9:05 what you're supposed to be doing
10:30 critical

Pay attention to the sound at all times.

What is she doing that you're not doing? Listen closely.

Take her rhythmic feel and apply it to your Autumn Leaves melody.

Let me also say that this is not the whole story of how to swing. The timestamps and video above will get you in the ballpark as a beginner.

There's other things like how to swing a quarter note, how to play 'straight and late'. These will come later. Try to get the beginner swing feel above first.

[ragman1]

They all want to help you don't they? My god.

Wrong key
Too fast
Too many notes

Go back to your metronome in Em at 70. You can get the swing feel in an instant by doing this:

Play it right through then come back. Don't post anything that needs an excuse. Wait till it's good.

[Mick-7]

You're absolutely right about all of it. I switched from Em to Gm because the backing track I'm using (bass and drums only, as recommended) is in Gm. I explored that key very quickly today and went straight to recording

The tempo is also a bit fast for where I am. The real issue is that I don't see Gm across the whole fretboard yet - I don't have a clear map of it - so I was decorating as best I could: chromatic notes and nearby notes I could see. Not really embellishing the melody, more just... reaching for whatever was close.

Your backing track doesn't swing - time feel is too straight - so if you follow it you won't either.

Try this one:

[onezeho]

They all want to help you don't they? My god.

Wrong key
Too fast
Too many notes

Go back to your metronome in Em at 70. You can get the swing feel in an instant by doing this:

Play it right through then come back. Don't post anything that needs an excuse. Wait till it's good.

Just trying to play less mechanically and evenly I still have a lot to learn

[ragman1]

Just trying to play less mechanically and evenly I still have a lot to learn

Small steps, my friend, and less verbalisation. Anyone can live on words. Just do the next step. You're used to Em and the tune. Let it swing, no more than that. We can put in other stuff presently. If you want to, of course.

[Woody Sound]

A LOT of detailed info here. Sometimes the littlest very basic things can turn into big "Aha, that's it!" moments when starting out. For example, do you play standard I-IV-V 12-bar blues changes? Have you to gone to V7/ii in bar 8? Substitute ii-V7 for V7?

[Reg]

yea... you need to decide what you want to do...

Your a beginner... Your not going to be able to play in a jazz style for a while.
You need to develop some skills on your instrument... and some basic musical theory.

You can play by ear... but it becomes difficult to repeat without organization. Form(s) help organize the space... and "Harmonic Function" or how chords and notes have different roles in different Keys. Tonic, Dominant and sub-dominant.

It's not life or death etc...

Forms are just the overall structure or organization... of the space that music fits into. Sections of tunes usually labeled with... ABA AABA AB etc...

Harmonic Function is just organization of how chords and notes react to each other in different Keys.
Tonic...Subdominant and Dominant

The technical thing... well it's takes organized work. Most don't get there without.... doing the work.

Simple daily schedule,

1) Warm up... usually have a few drills that rotate. Spider drills, nothing better for developing fingers and picking.
Scales, Arps. all mentioned before. Chords

2) Scales and chords... basic scales and chords derived from those scales

3) Sight reading... can be as simple as reading through standards melodies and changes

4) learning tunes... which should also be learning the basic rhythmic styles of tunes...Swing, Latin etc...

Get a rhythmic source, drum genious or electric piano with rhythmic tracks... app. etc.

If it was easy... we would all be pros. But you don't need to be a pro to develop skills to play jazz at the amateur level and perform etc.. have fun even make money.

[joe2758]

But Reg, couldn't you already basically shred before you mastered that stuff? Doesn't anything come before that?

[Woody Sound]

In recent years, I'm finding that I only need one scale , "The Chromatic scale".

If you know the chord tones, intervals, arps etc on the fretboard. All the notes needed are in the "The Chromatic scale" somewhere, it's just a matter of knowing where they are when you need them.

Obviously, it's not for everyone, but it works for me.

I too use the chromatic scale as the basis for most everthing. But I'm curious as to how you finger those examples. For runs and actually playing the scale, I generally use a 4-note per string pattern, shifting between strings.

[GuyBoden]

I too use the chromatic scale as the basis for most everthing. But I'm curious as to how you finger those examples. For runs and actually playing the scale, I generally use a 4-note per string pattern, shifting between strings.

It's very positional, but easy because there are only five patterns, and then one pattern for each five strings. It's then repeated after 5 strings.

First, I think you need to have spent many years getting to know Chord tones, Intervals and Arps.

If you look at the fretboard diagram (below), from the highest string you will see 5 distinct string lines, which are repeated again a semi tone higher at the low string.


Warning: this is P4 tuning. Standard tuning is slightly different.

EDIT: NOT FOR BEGINNERS

[Mick-7]

I too use the chromatic scale as the basis for most everthing. But I'm curious as to how you finger those examples. For runs and actually playing the scale, I generally use a 4-note per string pattern, shifting between strings.

The 5 fret finger span encourages one to play 5 notes per string. For example, take a diminished scale and fill in the missing notes:

[Christian Miller]

Nah three fingers and the truth. Grab and whack for the win.


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