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Just thinking this through. The idea is to think of a scale or mode and have the notes "light up" on the fretboard. So, for example, if the mode is C ionian, all the notes in the Cmajor scale "light up" and you instantly know where they all are.
Originally Posted by Reg
Now, you're going to do it for all modes of the Cmajor scale, so the same notes light up when you think D Dorian or B locrian etc.
And, now you're going to do that in 12 keys. And, you have to figure out if you need to work on fingerings for each and how to get the right notes on the right beats vs off beats.
And, now you're going to have to start thinking about substitution rules so that you can figure out which mode makes sense over which chord in a tune.
It all makes sense.
And, now, you have to do it for mel min, harmonic minor, harmonic major, dim, WT, pentatonic, blues and bebop. 12 keys. Actually, you probably have to add a few more enharmonic equivalents so that you don't stumble while you translate G# into Ab.
And, when you're finished, you still have to learn tunes and vocabulary.
This seems overwhelming to me. I can do it for major and melodic minor. It took years. I'm not arguing with Reg, who is a true expert in the way he plays and the way he thinks about the music. And, a generous poster with some of the most helpful instructional videos (free on youtube reg523) I've seen. It just feels overwhelming.
I would encourage the OP to consider one more point. There is a video of Jimmy Bruno sounding absolutely fantastic while demonstrating playing a Bb major scale over Bbmaj7. Maybe consider working on that sort of thing early on?
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06-16-2026 02:24 PM
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Yeah I think the stuff Reg is outlining here is useful, but it is about two decades worth of work.
Picking the major scale and some of the bread and butter sounds to really live with for a start.
Combine that with the licks like Joe has been talking about.
I think for a spelling of truly how much material is out there for these things reg is talking about, check this book out:
https://www.shermusic.com/1883217423.php
Look in the diatonic exercises section, notice that there are a lot of exercises implied but not spelled out, then imagine doing that in every key and position, with melodic minor, harmonic minor, etc etc.
It really is lifetimes worth.
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Is it safe to say you are telling me good job? Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Yes, or piano either for that matter, I prefer just bass and drums or simply bass. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
No, he said the licks that Joe has talked about, not the ones he's played. Originally Posted by joe2758
Last edited by Mick-7; 06-16-2026 at 03:17 PM.
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little pat on the head Originally Posted by joe2758
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I like this guy for practicing
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Re: Mr. Sunny Bass, He's good for swing tunes but his timing is sometimes weak on post-bop tunes. There was a Bill Evans tune where it was off and I couldn't play with it - it was a difficult tune but IMO when there is no drummer, a steady tempo is more important than getting the changes exactly right. Originally Posted by joe2758
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Whenever you sit with your guitar and practice, it is good. At least in some way..
.. arpeggios yes. Do that and you improve excatly doing that - you get better at arpeggios. Isolated arpeggios.
Whenever you practice something, you have to be honest about what you do. What exactly is happening.
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good thing i don't have to worry about any tunes like that lol!
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I learned, by drill, most of this stuff for major, natural minor and melodic minor. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
For harmonic major, I didn't really learn it, but I am able to access at least some of the sounds that might typically derive from thinking about Harmmaj. It's white keys, except you lower the A to Ab. What chord(s) are suggested? First one that occurs to me is G13b9. So, I could think, Gmixo but lower the A. What I actually am more likely to think is E triad over G7, if I have to think at all. The internet mentions other applications, but I don't know them.
For C harmonic minor, it's white keys but you lower the E and A. G7b9b13. I'm likely to think, G7 with the two specific alterations, if I'm thinking. I might think Abmadd9 or Abmelmin (D vs Db is the difference). Or Db13.
For me, trying to internalize anything from combinatorics rarely works. For example, I find it easier to think G7#11 scale than fourth mode D melodic minor.
And, ultimately, it doesn't work so well if you're doing math in your head to find the notes. Better if you hear the sound in you mind and your fingers find it on their own.
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yea... Mr. Sunny Bass is cool. But it's more of that beat it into yourself approach. Good for some, but some variation and development, not just harmonically but rhythmically and work with the form etc...
yea Rick it is kind of overwhelming all at once. But we are old, LOL. Most are young...
And the goal of what I always push is... to be able to play tunes in many different styles or arrangements well... the first time through. And be able to go to different musical places while performing live etc...
I trash tunes all the time... and fake it LOL. But I can usually hear and understand where other musicians are going or coming from. Good or bad.
Again my technical BS approach just does not take that long when your organized and put in the time. It's not really my approach, it’s how I was taught as a kid. The understandings and musical organizational concepts came later when I had the chops to hang at gigs and later getting comp.degree at Berklee in 70's .
Again, it's not a lifetime worth of work. Players that can play a little get it done in 6 months to a year, most take a few years... just not organized enough... and try and get all the material from books, vids etc...
Part of the deal is to go through the process of notating or writing out the material yourself. If you need help... the material is everywhere. But taking the time to notate out all the possibilities and relationships... is also part of getting your technical skills together. You can see the relationships on paper as well as on the fretboard.
It's not for everyone... I remember years ago after gig in Oakland, went to Yoshi's and Cedar Walton was still hanging at bar etc... started BSin with him... anyway talking about Coltrane and how he, (CW) was supposed to be on the Giant steps recording ... then ...
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So how do you organize it? Originally Posted by Reg
Have you seen this Goodrick sheet? I tried to use it as an organizational tool… basically play the scales/arps in the key listed to a metronome. I tried this, but it felt like an everything at once approach and after 2 weeks I still had to use a cheat sheet for most of them.
A lot of effort for scales I don’t use. I feel like I can natural a 6th over minor as a choice without having shedded all the fingerings/modes of harmonic and melodic minor.
Mick Goodrick Practice Routine | PDF
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I don’t know. I was playing 6 hours a day for a while, and I just never got to symmetrical diminished scales in alternating up and down scalar sixths with chromatic approach notes on both. Originally Posted by Reg
etc etc
It is almost a literal infinity of material when you start actually thinking about the permutations.
So you do need — at some point, whether you plan to do it all or just a little — to decide where to start and how much to commit to it.
And for what it’s worth, and can and do play my melodic minor scales in alternating scalar sixths with chromatic approaches to both notes. So it’s not something I’m saying is worthless — just that everyone has to make a choice sometime about when and how much to spend on it.
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This is like saying unless you can spell Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch you can't write a decent novel. Total bull.
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But that does this mean you've stopped learning? There's always something new to find out. Originally Posted by brent.h
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onezeho -
You're silent. I suspect you think I'm making you jump through hoops. I'm not, it's up to you. This was the last request anyway, after that it's in your court.
You played AL beautifully, right from the sheet. My point after that was simple, it needs some personal input. The computer can play from the sheet but it can't personalise it. AI could probably produce a facsimile but that's still mechanical. So can you play the tune with some expression?
This is important because I doubt if it can be learned from any book. They could give you something to copy but then you're back to square one.
So try personalising it with your own expression in your own way. This is what improvisation is and it makes up a major part of jazz playing, that's the point. If you can do this you can do everything else. But without this anything else you do won't be worth much, however technically skilled you become.
I did one yesterday. First take, probably never repeated exactly the same again. Yours doesn't have to the first take, only post what you like. If you don't want to do it here at least do it for yourself. It matters.
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In recent years, I'm finding that I only need one scale , "The Chromatic scale".
If you know the chord tones, intervals, arps etc on the fretboard. All the notes needed are in the "The Chromatic scale" somewhere, it's just a matter of knowing where they are when you need them.
Obviously, it's not for everyone, but it works for me.
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Yes, I can record my version of AL. Actually, I've never played from sheet music before, and everything I've heard has always been played the way I saw it. The problem is that when I play by ear, I often get lost in the song and miss chord changes. So I thought it would be good to understand how the original sounds, and then start adding embellishments. I'll record it a little later! Originally Posted by ragman1
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Well … yeah Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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Yes, it's very simple, in theory. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Oh, well, we'll be onto Giant Steps in no time! Originally Posted by onezeho
I saw you'd selected the Cannonball Adderley version of AL. Now, the sax playing on that was very interesting. Not just the notes but the harmonies and the effect of his notes over the changes. Subtle stuff.
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It's not just putting in the time....
It's organizing what you work on with the time.
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Okay, now I feel a slight shame.. My vocabulary isn't very big yet.. Would appreciate comments Originally Posted by ragman1
AL–impr-Gm-1.mp3
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Dont sweat it, brother. Ragman likes to heckle from the cheap seats. Originally Posted by onezeho
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Ah, finally got onezeho's mom's to play.
OK, so as others have said, the first take, perfectly fine, straight off the page, sounds like you're reading it. All good, continuing on.
Latest clip-- ok, so here's what I'm hearing--my advice always worth exactly what you're paying for it
Im hearing hesitation and uncertainty. Might be the new key, might be the faster tempo, a little "red light syndrome." Very normal issue type stuff, you're going to be fine (Congratulations, you're normal!) What that uncertainty does is make it sound like you're fishing for the melody instead of embellishing it or interpreting it. Its an interesting thing. I hear it in my own playing all the time, when I don't really know a tune.
Id be interested in hearing you play it again-- simpler, like in the first clip-' no added notes yet-- but with the looser feel you're going for in the second clip. Relax the time a little...can you slide into a note or two? Something to make it more expressive without really adding to it. Ill try to post a video of what I mean too.
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