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Perfect
What Jeff said about backing tracks is true too. If there's a piano tinkling away or a guitar with a lot of treble sounds it can get in the way of your notes. They quite often do them with just bass and drums and it says 'no piano' on them. Or maybe you can find one where the general sound is pretty bland and doesn't intrude on what you're playing.
So, you played it right off the sheet beautifully. What next? Try playing it with some personal expression. Delay a note here and there, put some rhythm into it, that sort of thing. But not too much, just a bit so it doesn't sound too 'by rote'. Does that make sense?
I'm quite sure you can do that, by the way. I can tell by the way you're playing it already. Gentle and practiced :-)
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06-16-2026 10:45 AM
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nice tone!
Originally Posted by onezeho
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Originally Posted by onezeho
Hey Onezeho
So the fretboard needs to become... somewhat like interchangeable grids.You think, see of hear a note or chord (Reference), and the fretboard becomes that reference.
Ex. You see, hear or feel...a reference... say Gmaj7. The fretboard becomes that Gmaj7. Anywhere on the fretboard. Generally at first... it's like all the notes of that "Reference" ....Gmaj7 light up or become visual.
Then say G-7.... same thing. Different notes.
This is just the basic starting point. Next you need to be able to do the same thing with... creating "Relationships" with that Gma7 the "Reference".
The Gmaj7 "Reference" usually begins with simple Major (Ionian) . Now that Gma7 has a more musically organized
collection of notes.
This same process needs to be gone through with the basic Scales and their Modes.
Major scale and it's Modes
Melodic Minor and it's Modes
Harmonic Minor and its Modes
Harmonic Major and it's Modes
Symmetric Scales... Diminished and Whole Tone
Pentatonic(s) .. modes
Blues... modes
Bebop ... modes
Now you have a basic understanding of the fretboard that has musical organization.
Your able to create chords from each note... that has organization.
The next step is to begin to understand and hear the "RELATIONSHIPS" between the Chords and the Scales the Chords are derived from.
Then comes the "Development" of those "Relationships"
It begins to get a little more complicated... The organization of "Relationships" and the organization of the "Development" of those "Relationship".
Generally the term "Function" ...somewhat like the force or power behind what makes the music move or do what it wants to do... the guidelines for what might sound good or bad etc...
Simple example... If I call or hear that Gmaj7 as a "Tonic Reference" I open the musical door to using "Relative" Relationships. I can play Emin. voicings or play E- scale, or Pentatonic licks.
There are "Functional"... or Musical types of Relationships that have standard musical organization that open the doors for improv. Playing in a jazz style.
yea talking about it becomes BS... but actually playing with this approach isn't BS. It not only allows you to play... but allows you to hear and understand what other musicians are playing... where the music can go etc..
That's generally why you need to get your technical chops together... You can also do this by ear and just playing... but it takes years, lots of years, and many never get there. Which is fine, it's still fun... no good or bad.
Sorry for long post
Reg
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Thanks for the breakdown. Now I just need to figure out how to balance the technical side with working through standards... Originally Posted by Reg
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Just make a daily schedule for a week and leave room to adjust. Originally Posted by onezeho
The technical part is mechanical and will adjust by it's self.
The playing of standards will change with your level of skills... LOL
The point is to be able to play standards etc...with out practice. You can't memorize all versions of all standards etc...
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Bummed, onezho's mp3's will not open for me.
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He plays the melody slow straight and solid with good tone Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I dunno I'm accessing the site using Brave on an Android. Could download/play it no problem. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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For melodies, singers are the tops. Here's a good one:
Notice that there are no added notes in the first pass through the A section, but it's totally her own and swings hard.
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Just thinking this through. The idea is to think of a scale or mode and have the notes "light up" on the fretboard. So, for example, if the mode is C ionian, all the notes in the Cmajor scale "light up" and you instantly know where they all are. Originally Posted by Reg
Now, you're going to do it for all modes of the Cmajor scale, so the same notes light up when you think D Dorian or B locrian etc.
And, now you're going to do that in 12 keys. And, you have to figure out if you need to work on fingerings for each and how to get the right notes on the right beats vs off beats.
And, now you're going to have to start thinking about substitution rules so that you can figure out which mode makes sense over which chord in a tune.
It all makes sense.
And, now, you have to do it for mel min, harmonic minor, harmonic major, dim, WT, pentatonic, blues and bebop. 12 keys. Actually, you probably have to add a few more enharmonic equivalents so that you don't stumble while you translate G# into Ab.
And, when you're finished, you still have to learn tunes and vocabulary.
This seems overwhelming to me. I can do it for major and melodic minor. It took years. I'm not arguing with Reg, who is a true expert in the way he plays and the way he thinks about the music. And, a generous poster with some of the most helpful instructional videos (free on youtube reg523) I've seen. It just feels overwhelming.
I would encourage the OP to consider one more point. There is a video of Jimmy Bruno sounding absolutely fantastic while demonstrating playing a Bb major scale over Bbmaj7. Maybe consider working on that sort of thing early on?
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Yeah I think the stuff Reg is outlining here is useful, but it is about two decades worth of work.
Picking the major scale and some of the bread and butter sounds to really live with for a start.
Combine that with the licks like Joe has been talking about.
I think for a spelling of truly how much material is out there for these things reg is talking about, check this book out:
https://www.shermusic.com/1883217423.php
Look in the diatonic exercises section, notice that there are a lot of exercises implied but not spelled out, then imagine doing that in every key and position, with melodic minor, harmonic minor, etc etc.
It really is lifetimes worth.
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Is it safe to say you are telling me good job? Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Yes, or piano either for that matter, I prefer just bass and drums or simply bass. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
No, he said the licks that Joe has talked about, not the ones he's played. Originally Posted by joe2758
Last edited by Mick-7; 06-16-2026 at 03:17 PM.
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little pat on the head Originally Posted by joe2758
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I like this guy for practicing
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Re: Mr. Sunny Bass, He's good for swing tunes but his timing is sometimes weak on post-bop tunes. There was a Bill Evans tune where it was off and I couldn't play with it - it was a difficult tune but IMO when there is no drummer, a steady tempo is more important than getting the changes exactly right. Originally Posted by joe2758
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Whenever you sit with your guitar and practice, it is good. At least in some way..
.. arpeggios yes. Do that and you improve excatly doing that - you get better at arpeggios. Isolated arpeggios.
Whenever you practice something, you have to be honest about what you do. What exactly is happening.
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good thing i don't have to worry about any tunes like that lol!
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I learned, by drill, most of this stuff for major, natural minor and melodic minor. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
For harmonic major, I didn't really learn it, but I am able to access at least some of the sounds that might typically derive from thinking about Harmmaj. It's white keys, except you lower the A to Ab. What chord(s) are suggested? First one that occurs to me is G13b9. So, I could think, Gmixo but lower the A. What I actually am more likely to think is E triad over G7, if I have to think at all. The internet mentions other applications, but I don't know them.
For C harmonic minor, it's white keys but you lower the E and A. G7b9b13. I'm likely to think, G7 with the two specific alterations, if I'm thinking. I might think Abmadd9 or Abmelmin (D vs Db is the difference). Or Db13.
For me, trying to internalize anything from combinatorics rarely works. For example, I find it easier to think G7#11 scale than fourth mode D melodic minor.
And, ultimately, it doesn't work so well if you're doing math in your head to find the notes. Better if you hear the sound in you mind and your fingers find it on their own.
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yea... Mr. Sunny Bass is cool. But it's more of that beat it into yourself approach. Good for some, but some variation and development, not just harmonically but rhythmically and work with the form etc...
yea Rick it is kind of overwhelming all at once. But we are old, LOL. Most are young...
And the goal of what I always push is... to be able to play tunes in many different styles or arrangements well... the first time through. And be able to go to different musical places while performing live etc...
I trash tunes all the time... and fake it LOL. But I can usually hear and understand where other musicians are going or coming from. Good or bad.
Again my technical BS approach just does not take that long when your organized and put in the time. It's not really my approach, it’s how I was taught as a kid. The understandings and musical organizational concepts came later when I had the chops to hang at gigs and later getting comp.degree at Berklee in 70's .
Again, it's not a lifetime worth of work. Players that can play a little get it done in 6 months to a year, most take a few years... just not organized enough... and try and get all the material from books, vids etc...
Part of the deal is to go through the process of notating or writing out the material yourself. If you need help... the material is everywhere. But taking the time to notate out all the possibilities and relationships... is also part of getting your technical skills together. You can see the relationships on paper as well as on the fretboard.
It's not for everyone... I remember years ago after gig in Oakland, went to Yoshi's and Cedar Walton was still hanging at bar etc... started BSin with him... anyway talking about Coltrane and how he, (CW) was supposed to be on the Giant steps recording ... then ...
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So how do you organize it? Originally Posted by Reg
Have you seen this Goodrick sheet? I tried to use it as an organizational tool… basically play the scales/arps in the key listed to a metronome. I tried this, but it felt like an everything at once approach and after 2 weeks I still had to use a cheat sheet for most of them.
A lot of effort for scales I don’t use. I feel like I can natural a 6th over minor as a choice without having shedded all the fingerings/modes of harmonic and melodic minor.
Mick Goodrick Practice Routine | PDF
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I don’t know. I was playing 6 hours a day for a while, and I just never got to symmetrical diminished scales in alternating up and down scalar sixths with chromatic approach notes on both. Originally Posted by Reg
etc etc
It is almost a literal infinity of material when you start actually thinking about the permutations.
So you do need — at some point, whether you plan to do it all or just a little — to decide where to start and how much to commit to it.
And for what it’s worth, and can and do play my melodic minor scales in alternating scalar sixths with chromatic approaches to both notes. So it’s not something I’m saying is worthless — just that everyone has to make a choice sometime about when and how much to spend on it.
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This is like saying unless you can spell Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch you can't write a decent novel. Total bull.
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Yes, I agree. This is part of defining one's sound and taste. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Myself, I've decided to stop putting effort into learning melodic minor, harmonic minor, whole tone scale, diminished scale, because I don't see how they are useful to me. I don't like how difficult the fingerings are, and I can't be bothered to learn them.
For what I do, I only need the major scale and arpeggios. If I need a tonic minor sound, I play a minor triad with a natural 6. If I need a diminished sound, I play a diminished arpeggio. If I need an augmented sound, I play an augmented arpeggio. For everything else, I can just use the major scale.
I'm aware that to some others, only using these sounds is like only working with a limited set of colouring pencils or working with '256-colour'. But to me, those colours are more than enough. The more important thing is: am I playing the melody/lines in good time and do I swing?
I am not saying anyone should follow my method. By all means, go ahead and learn as much as you can if you want to; no one died from learning more. I am saying that I have come to accept and own my ignorance and limitations.
I am a basic bitch in this genre of music, and I think I'm ok with that.
OP, this is me trying to do something simple here and here. All the lines I play are based on the major scale and simple arpeggios. (I'm a late-stage beginner, and I can accept what I've played.)Last edited by brent.h; 06-17-2026 at 02:22 AM.
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But that does this mean you've stopped learning? There's always something new to find out. Originally Posted by brent.h
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