6 months into jazz - overwhelmed and not sure where to focus. Advice?

[onezeho]

Hello everyone. I'd appreciate some advice, but first I'd like to provide a little context about my musical background and where I am right now

I'm 25. I picked up guitar at 16, but for a long time it was just a casual hobby - strumming chord-based songs, picking things out by ear, improvising with no real system. I only started taking it seriously about 2-3 years ago

For a while I got pretty deep into music theory - YouTube channels, reading, trying to wrap my head around harmony. My theoretical knowledge grew, but my actual playing didn't keep up. Until fairly recently I'd barely touched scales, positions, ear training, or rhythm work in any structured way.

About six months ago I made the switch to jazz. I started listening a lot and realized this was the direction I wanted to go. I worked through Jens Larsen's material - shell chords, basic jazz concepts - and for the first time started taking the metronome seriously

From there I moved into standards: Take Five, then All of Me. Working through those made it very clear how weak my rhythm was, so I spent a lot of time on the metronome, triplets, and swing feel. The swing thing eventually clicked in a way I didn't expect - not through any explanation, but physically. At some point the triplet eighth just settled into place and I felt it from the inside. That was probably the biggest single moment for me these past few months

Right now I'm working through Chris Parks' Barry Harris material. I've got the major scale in one position down - triads, thirds, chords, up and down - and I'm working on chord tones, chromatics, and the diminished 6 scales. But I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. There's a lot coming at once and it's getting hard to hold it all

The gaps I'm aware of:

• Ear training, especially transcribing - melodically I can get somewhere, rhythmically I fall apart
• The connection between what I hear, sing, and play
• Understanding the function of notes within the harmony
• Improvising through chord changes
• Feeling free inside swing when actually playing
• Fretboard knowledge

My main question: looking at the full picture, where should I focus right now? Keep pushing through Barry Harris even when it feels like too much? Shift toward ear training and transcription? Work more on rhythm? Or is there something more fundamental I'm missing altogether?

[marcwhy]

Hi - welcome to the wild world of jazz guitar!

So, what does your teacher recommend right now?

[wolflen]

Yes as marcshy asks..I would recommend a very good teacher.

You have alot of fragments but not one piece of "whole cloth"

I was in a very similar place years back..I had alot of things I could do but they were not "connected" to anything I knew about.

In a harmonic context for example--do you know the chords in the major and minor scales in all keys..?

.. and from there--do you know the inversions of the chords (triads and four note chords) of the major and minor scales?

Do you see how knowing these two harmonic studies are necessary in a jazz context?? Can you see they are related?

Now this type of stuff is really basic ground work in chord studies/Harmony!

This is what my teacher started me with..and applying some of this to tunes..how and why- ( theory) the chords worked in them.

Then of course the scales/arpeggios of the chords.

And so much more.

Now comes the reality--This takes alot of time dedication and constant practice.

If you do it..you will be glad you did.

Just my take..hope it helps

[ragman1]

I only started taking it seriously about 2-3 years ago

Ah, that was your big mistake. Run, save yourself while there's still time...

[pauln]

"...strumming chord-based songs,
picking things out by ear,
improvising with no real system."

Comping actual tunes,
developing a good ear,
improvising pretheory.

You're going to be just fine;
welcome to the best place
in the world for jazz guitar!

[joe2758]

Based on what I have read in the OP,
1. timing and vocabulary of phrases
2. Tunes with basic chords and timing
3. timing

Or in other words:
Learn licks, learn tunes, then just enough theory to help you place the licks in the tune. Then practice timing

[pamosmusic]

Based on what I have read in the OP,
1. timing and vocabulary of phrases
2. Tunes with basic chords and timing
3. timing

Or in other words:
Learn licks, learn tunes, then just enough theory to help you place the licks in the tune. Then practice timing

Getting a teacher is probably the best advice, and a good teacher will probably just be guiding you through this.

[AllanAllen]

OP, I remember those days. What I’d recommend is picking 5 songs and getting together with anyone else to jam. Weekly if possible. Slowly add songs until you get to 20, then start gigging at coffee shops and wine bars.

My groups been together 3 years and we still play “beginner tunes” like Satin Doll, Blue Bossa and All of Me. They’re fun.

Also, as Brent said, post a clip for specific advice. Pretty much Everyone is cool here, nobody is going to roast you. We want each other to improve.

[mr. beaumont]

More tunes, less "stuff."

[starjasmine]

Yes, get a teacher! Not just any music teacher, take private lessons with a jazz guitarist who can explain to you what you need to know in a way that you can understand. There are guys who can play but can't explain why they do what they do. That's not what you need now. You need someone who can help you see the forest for the trees.

[GuyBoden]

Yes, get a teacher! Not just any music teacher, take private lessons with a jazz guitarist who can explain to you what you need to know in a way that you can understand. There are guys who can play but can't explain why they do what they do. That's not what you need now. You need someone who can help you see the forest for the trees.

Yes, don't buy that expensive guitar or amp. Invest in good Jazz lessons instead.

[onezeho]

I could try to play something, but honestly it'll take me some time. Haven't played any pieces in a while, I'll see what I can put together

[onezeho]

Thanks for the replies guys! A teacher is tricky right now, but I'll try to sort that out.

[pamosmusic]

I would also note that Take Five would be sure to show you how weak your rhythm is because — ahem — it’s in five.

It’s harder than it sounds. I wouldnt use it as a bench mark.

[pamosmusic]

Jazz is about interpreting songs.

It's not theory, not scales/arpeggios. It's not a 'what to play'. If you think it's all about the 'what to play' at this stage, you will be overwhelmed.

Rather, jazz is a 'when to play' and 'how to play'.

Ok, that's all I can think of for now.

Ooooo. I do like this.

Don't go about learning songs from a 'Top 100 Standards You Should Know' just because some YouTuber said so.

But what if that YouTuber is a cheeky Brit in jumper and his video is big and clever?

[onezeho]

Thanks for such a detailed and genuine reply, it's really valuable. I agree with everything you wrote here - recently I started watching Jazz 2001, I also bought a history book, and soon I'll start watching interviews and learning about specific songs. Jazz isn't just music, it's context too. I get that now and I'm really enjoying discovering all of it

Going to post some audio within the next 2-3 hours, looking forward to any feedback

[onezeho]

Yes, get a teacher. It will save you a lot of time.

Could we have some audio of you playing? Say, one chorus of the blues (12 bars) or half a chorus of All Of Me (16 bars)? Maybe play the backing track on a laptop, then use your phone to record yourself playing guitar? No need video or anything fancy.

Here's Johnny...

Honestly this was my first time improvising while actually paying attention to the chord changes - before I used to just play within one position and one chord for the whole song... I lost it a bit toward the end, but decided not to go overboard with endless retakes

[Tal_175]

The gaps I'm aware of:

• Ear training, especially transcribing - melodically I can get somewhere, rhythmically I fall apart
• The connection between what I hear, sing, and play
• Understanding the function of notes within the harmony
• Improvising through chord changes
• Feeling free inside swing when actually playing
• Fretboard knowledge

These are areas you improve gradually over the years. Try to find practice approaches where you can work on most of them (or even all of them) at once. The key insight is that your rate of growth in any one area isn’t actually faster when you isolate it; you often make more progress by working on several areas simultaneously because you internalize these skills when you encounter them in different contexts. Isolation is useful when you need to address a specific issue but it shouldn't be the main practice activity.

Working on playing the changes with a metronome is just one type of practice activity, and it can cover:

• Fretboard knowledge
• Learning tunes
• Time feel
• Ear training
• Understanding harmony, etc.

All of these can be addressed through transcribing as well. First sing what you’re trying to transcribe before playing it, and make sure you understand the rhythm both mentally and by feel. Then find a chord shape the line fits over and hear how it relates to the harmony. That pretty much touches every item in your list.

Finding ways to work on many areas at once is not only more productive, it also makes practice more musical.

[onezeho]

Thanks for sharing!

1) I'm playing this from my phone, so the backing track sounds more like a blues shuffle. One of the biggest differences between blues/rock and jazz is where the accents are: in the former, accents are placed on the downbeat, the latter, the upbeats. The backing track you used is pushing you into placing your accents on the downbeats. In future, you'll want to work with a blues backing track in the jazz idiom. (Just type into YouTube jazz blues Bb backing track and use any of those.) These tracks are more appropriate because they encourage you place the accents on the upbeats (the third and last triplet of each beat).

2) When you use these tracks, you need to lock in with the drummer's upbeats to groove. How? Listen to his ride cymbal. Make sure your locked-in notes on the upbeats are accented and louder than your downbeats. That's a good starting point in learning how to play this music.

3) Your note lengths need to be short. Newcomers to jazz don't realise that their downbeats and/or upbeats notes sound way to long and 'flabby'. There's no snap to any of their playing. (That said, I'm not asking you to play staccato on everything.) You have to listen to how jazz musicians do it.

Notice how in the 3 points above, I didn't make one mention of your use of pentatonics or chord tones or target notes or changes or Barry Harris or Jens Larsen. I didn't focus on the 'what'. I focused on the 'when' and 'how', which is the thing that will make your playing sound like 'jazz'.

When you finally find your teacher, tell him/her that you want to learn how to swing.

Thanks! I'm aware of the weak beats - in this particular backing track I was really trying to hit them. It's much easier when you're working with just a metronome; today I realized I need more practice playing with drums and bass. Finding a teacher has been tough so far, but I'll keep looking

[mr. beaumont]

OP, do you listen to a lot of jazz? Who are you listening to?

Other questions: what does "rhythmically falling apart" mean in the context of transcription?

I can't get your file to play, but if that recording was literally the first time you tried playing changes, then you don't need ANY of this academic stuff yet. You need to pick 10 tunes, learn the chords, try to learn the melody by ear (transcribe melodies! Not just solos) and work on playing them in time and sounding good.

[joe2758]

Make sure your locked-in notes on the upbeats are accented and louder than your downbeats. That's a good starting point in learning how to play this music.

When I was developing this feel I slurred into downbeats everywhere it was comfortable and never slurred into an upbeat. You have to be mindful to swing the slurs and that might not be natural at first. But now that feel is in my head and i get the same feel on picked notes as well, but that just happened naturally.

I'm talking about over doing it...just for learning

[djg]

3) Your note lengths need to be short. Newcomers to jazz don't realise that their downbeats and/or upbeats notes sound way to long and 'flabby'. There's no snap to any of their playing. (That said, I'm not asking you to play staccato on everything.) You have to listen to how jazz musicians do it.

this

[pamosmusic]

When I was developing this feel I slurred into downbeats everywhere it was comfortable and never slurred into an upbeat. You have to be mindful to swing the slurs and that might not be natural at first. But now that feel is in my head and i get the same feel on picked notes as well, but that just happened naturally.

I'm talking about over doing it...just for learning

Oh did you now ….

[onezeho]

OP, do you listen to a lot of jazz? Who are you listening to?

Other questions: what does "rhythmically falling apart" mean in the context of transcription?

I can't get your file to play, but if that recording was literally the first time you tried playing changes, then you don't need ANY of this academic stuff yet. You need to pick 10 tunes, learn the chords, try to learn the melody by ear (transcribe melodies! Not just solos) and work on playing them in time and sounding good.

Yes, I listen to a lot of jazz, but right now it's a pretty chaotic process - I try to listen attentively through full albums but it doesn't always work out. I don't have a favourite artist yet that I could keep coming back to again and again. Trumpet players are what I love most. Here's what resonates with me so far:

1. Kind of Blue by Miles Davis - I love putting it on late at night
2. Kenny Dorham, Gerry Mulligan, Cannonball Adderley, Johnny Hodges
3. Atomic Basie - a big love, I adore it

I listen to others in bits and pieces and enjoy them too, but haven't given them the proper attention yet: Bill Evans, Louis Armstrong, Dizzy, Charlie Parker, Chet Baker, Brubeck, Hancock
I haven't listened to much guitar - it somehow put me off, not sure why. The one thing I love from Joe Pass is Offbeat from Virtuoso #3

When I said "rhythmically falling apart" I meant that when I try to transcribe rhythm, I lose the plot - I can't hear the subdivisions and sometimes can't even lock in with the basic pulse. I recently tried to transcribe the piano melody from Louis Armstrong's A Kiss to Build a Dream On, but when I started putting it into Guitar Pro I got completely lost with the rhythm

Any listening recommendations are welcome!

[John A.]

Hello everyone. I'd appreciate some advice, but first I'd like to provide a little context about my musical background and where I am right now

I'm 25. I picked up guitar at 16, but for a long time it was just a casual hobby - strumming chord-based songs, picking things out by ear, improvising with no real system. I only started taking it seriously about 2-3 years ago

For a while I got pretty deep into music theory - YouTube channels, reading, trying to wrap my head around harmony. My theoretical knowledge grew, but my actual playing didn't keep up. Until fairly recently I'd barely touched scales, positions, ear training, or rhythm work in any structured way.

About six months ago I made the switch to jazz. I started listening a lot and realized this was the direction I wanted to go. I worked through Jens Larsen's material - shell chords, basic jazz concepts - and for the first time started taking the metronome seriously

From there I moved into standards: Take Five, then All of Me. Working through those made it very clear how weak my rhythm was, so I spent a lot of time on the metronome, triplets, and swing feel. The swing thing eventually clicked in a way I didn't expect - not through any explanation, but physically. At some point the triplet eighth just settled into place and I felt it from the inside. That was probably the biggest single moment for me these past few months

Right now I'm working through Chris Parks' Barry Harris material. I've got the major scale in one position down - triads, thirds, chords, up and down - and I'm working on chord tones, chromatics, and the diminished 6 scales. But I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. There's a lot coming at once and it's getting hard to hold it all

The gaps I'm aware of:

• Ear training, especially transcribing - melodically I can get somewhere, rhythmically I fall apart
• The connection between what I hear, sing, and play
• Understanding the function of notes within the harmony
• Improvising through chord changes
• Feeling free inside swing when actually playing
• Fretboard knowledge

My main question: looking at the full picture, where should I focus right now? Keep pushing through Barry Harris even when it feels like too much? Shift toward ear training and transcription? Work more on rhythm? Or is there something more fundamental I'm missing altogether?

I think you're missing something more fundamental -- learn tunes, play with other people, have fun. You do mention two tunes, so I'm not sure if you're playing more than this, but if not you should (and I'd definitely not bother focusing on Take 5). There are all kinds of lists of the best tunes to start with, but at a minimum it should include several GASB tunes with a mix of song forms and keys, at least one rhythm changes tune (I Got Rhythm, Oleo, Cotton Tail, etc.), some blues heads, some bossa nova tunes (e.g., Girl From Ipanema, Corcovado, Black Orpheus), and some jazz-specific standards, e.g., So What, Sugar, Ellington tunes (e.g., Satin Doll or A-Train), Blue Bossa, maybe a bop head or two. If at all possible, find some people to hang/jam with. Jazz is an ensemble/social form.