6 months into jazz - overwhelmed and not sure where to focus. Advice?

**rpjazzguitar** · 06-25-2026, 12:33 PM

No point in arguing the meaning of words with no agreed upon meaning. That said ...

Professional: You're making a living at it.

Jazz: You're doing it with jazz, not some other style of music.

Guitarist: You're doing it focused on guitar.

Sure, the components are all imprecise and therefore arguable. But, that's what makes sense to me.

Is the number vanishingly small? Since I know a few I can verify that it's not zero.

**ragman1** · 06-25-2026, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

result: I made progress 10x as fast because I stopped trying to progress at what I'm supposed to do

And there you have it precisely. The better and the more and more is the enemy of the good.

**AllanAllen** · 06-25-2026, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

Since I know a few I can verify that it's not zero.

I seriously doubt this. Who do you know that is financially surviving off just gigs? Not, a retired lawyer who plays gigs, not the husband of a doctor who plays gigs, but a guy who literally puts the roof over his head by solely playing live jazz guitar.

**djg** · 06-25-2026, 02:03 PM

sometimes the "seasoned pro" is actually a plumber irl

**Christian Miller** · 06-25-2026, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

I seriously doubt this. Who do you know that is financially surviving off just gigs? Not, a retired lawyer who plays gigs, not the husband of a doctor who plays gigs, but a guy who literally puts the roof over his head by solely playing live jazz guitar.

Yeah, TBF it does all depend on your outgoings.

I was full time "jazz guitar" for a few years. I don't take that as an indication of much though, apart from being in a successful band playing music I didn't much care for and at that time having low outgoings.

It's a BS thing to get hung up on.

**Strat-itis** · 06-25-2026, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

I seriously doubt this. Who do you know that is financially surviving off just gigs? Not, a retired lawyer who plays gigs, not the husband of a doctor who plays gigs, but a guy who literally puts the roof over his head by solely playing live jazz guitar.

**Strat-itis** · 06-25-2026, 05:29 PM

I tend to think of pro as meaning the musician's sole profession. But using pro to describe the musician's accepted level is also a viable definition I believe.

**rpjazzguitar** · 06-25-2026, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

I seriously doubt this. Who do you know that is financially surviving off just gigs? Not, a retired lawyer who plays gigs, not the husband of a doctor who plays gigs, but a guy who literally puts the roof over his head by solely playing live jazz guitar.

As it happens I know several guitarists who most people on here have probably heard or heard of. And several more you probably haven't heard of who, afaik, make a living at jazz guitar.

BTW, I didn't say all their income was from gigs. I said it was from jazz guitar, including gigs, teaching, recordings, etc.

**Christian Miller** · 06-26-2026, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

BTW, I didn't say all their income was from gigs. I said it was from jazz guitar, including gigs, teaching, recordings, etc.

Well there you go, then.

I do BTW know jazz bassists who make their living entirely through gigs.... but jazz guitarists? I think everyone at least teaches. Others play shows, do sessions. Most of us do a mix of these things. And the gigging thing is a hand to mouth existence unless you have a show or something. Which obviously isn't jazz.

People also often go through phases.

For instance it's kind of normal for people to stop playing gigs so much when they have a family. I play fewer gigs than I use to (it's starting to pick up again), but it's not like I've become a worse player. Some people sought other sources of income post-Covid. I know other players who've ended up doing thing like production and film music composition etc. But they still play great.

OTOH I know some full time musicians who really aren't that great - but they've found a niche.

The pro/semi-pro/amateur division is so grey it's not helpful as a guide to ability. Most of us are looking to make ends meet with our skill sets and connections. Not all of us are lucky and skilled enough to find ourselves playing on all the Hollywood film scores as a day job like John Parricelli did... but what we have in common is that Jazz remains a passion first and foremost.

In fact a vaguely remember Lennie Tristano advised his students to get a non music day job so their playing would be unsullied by commercial music lol. Not sure if I agree with that idea.

**Christian Miller** · 06-26-2026, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by Strat-itis

I tend to think of pro as meaning the musician's sole profession. But using pro to describe the musician's accepted level is also a viable definition I believe.

A common definition is a professional is someone that derives all or part of their income from that thing. So semi-pro doesn't really exist as a category under that definition.

**pamosmusic** · 06-26-2026, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

I seriously doubt this. Who do you know that is financially surviving off just gigs? Not, a retired lawyer who plays gigs, not the husband of a doctor who plays gigs, but a guy who literally puts the roof over his head by solely playing live jazz guitar.

I know a few. A bass player I just played with Wednesday night. He’s very good. He’s a bass player in a smallish city with a diverse music scene, so there is music happening but not very many good bass players. He’s also in a different phase of life — so roommates in a big house, etc.

**pamosmusic** · 06-26-2026, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

Well there you go, then.

I do BTW know jazz bassists who make their living entirely through gigs....

ha … jinx

**alltunes** · 06-26-2026, 07:50 AM

Maybe the title of this thread should be changed to read:

“Thirty plus Years into Jazz - Overwhelmed and not Sure Where to Focus”

**joe2758** · 06-26-2026, 07:53 AM

What do you guys think of the term "pro-level?"

There's a pro on youtube who refers to himself and other pros as pro-level players, as well as non-pros who play at the same level. So, he doesn't distinguish between them; he uses it as a descriptor of playing ability. He never expressed some sort of underlying belief behind it to my knowledge, that's just how he says it.

Seems clear enough to get his point across without stressing about getting an exact definition. He just means good.

Non-pro level musicians obviously can get gigs, that's not part of it.

Just wondering. I have used the term, but don't feel strongly about it. Which is why I feel safe. Because I don't like confrontation.

**joe2758** · 06-26-2026, 08:03 AM

Usually it is used like "reaching a pro-level" or "once i reached a pro-level"

edit: actually I think he does define it, let me look

**Christian Miller** · 06-26-2026, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by joe2758

What do you guys think of the term "pro-level?"

There's a pro on youtube who refers to himself and other pros as pro-level players, as well as non-pros who play at the same level. So, he doesn't distinguish between them; he uses it as a descriptor of playing ability. He never expressed some sort of underlying belief behind it to my knowledge, that's just how he says it.

I think it's kind of YouTube speak?

**joe2758** · 06-26-2026, 08:19 AM

It is, but also i.e {youtube speak is}common parlance

**pamosmusic** · 06-26-2026, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by joe2758

What do you guys think of the term "pro-level?"

There's a pro on youtube who refers to himself and other pros as pro-level players, as well as non-pros who play at the same level. So, he doesn't distinguish between them; he uses it as a descriptor of playing ability. He never expressed some sort of underlying belief behind it to my knowledge, that's just how he says it.

Seems clear enough to get his point across without stressing about getting an exact definition. He just means good.

Non-pro level musicians obviously can get gigs, that's not part of it.

Just wondering. I have used the term, but don't feel strongly about it. Which is why I feel safe. Because I don't like confrontation.

I think it’s very dumb. He should just say “good.”

**pamosmusic** · 06-26-2026, 08:39 AM

If we’re being honest “pro” is a marketing term these days like “artisanal” was in the 2010s.

Go to Lowe’s. “We supply the pros.” How many people in the store at any given time are professional contractors. Some, for sure. But most are just going to be YouTubing how to DYI an accent wall. But knowing they’re going where “the pros” go makes them feel like pros.

I put this kind of language in the same bucket as truck commercials where some dude is driving through a ravine in the woods so he can grill atop a scenic cliff. No one is doing this, but people paying $60k for a truck like to think they’re the kind of person who might.

(and the ratio of pros in lowes is way higher than the ratio of pros in a guitar center, or in the Benedetto order queue, for whatever that’s worth)

**joe2758** · 06-26-2026, 08:45 AM

K I found his definition:

This person has about 7,000 hours in, knows about 200 tunes, can prepare for a gig same day, can solo on all those tunes with no holes, and has some sort of personal style

**joe2758** · 06-26-2026, 08:51 AM

By comparison, a "competent jammer" might have 2,000 hours, 100 tunes, gig ready same week, can solo on most of those tunes, has some holes, and may have some timing and technique issues