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I've posted this elsewhere on the forum - Herbie Hancock's reminiscences of the "Nefertiti" session with Miles and an in-depth comparison between his own voicings and those transcribed for the Real Book:
Herbie Hancock - The "Nefertiti" Interview.
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01-17-2016 07:25 PM
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Yes! I love it when posting an example of music kills a conversation here. That bad, huh?
Oh well, back to gear chat.
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Oh man! I HATE THAT TOO!! But I think I know what that is. But no, I tried to listen but my wife was driving. She looked at me cockeyed and said "What are you doing?" So I gotta wait till I get home!!!
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Lol, well let me know when you do. My ear heard a few subs, but I'd love to see what wayne actually wrote too...I'm no herbie Hancock to be thinking I know enough to start changing things!
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they were talking about analyzing the changes. there's the changes, where's the analysis? that targuit guy seems to get distracted with the chord chart. It's already been established that shorter didn't write a chord chart.
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I questioned the need for analysis. I look at the chords and play what works!! Lol. What do you require for analysis? What are you looking for? What to play on the chords?
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How was it established Shorter didn't write a chord chart? How did I miss THAT? Was that in the interview? I haven't read it yet.
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I don't need an analysis, I can do that myself. but they were all blowing hot air as if the changes were some mystery.
Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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No, Shorter DID write a chord chart, he just didn't name them.
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Yeah baby !!! I loved it. You have such a cool vibe. And your daughter running through the room! Lol. But I dug the vibe if the song. Thanks Jeff! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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yep, that's what I meant, he wrote out specific voicings. That hancock interview pretty much covers that. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Now my theory - I think I've mentioned this before. I've seen it any number of times in any number of examples. Someone post themselves playing, or a band example, sound cloud, YouTube. You can't even hear crickets. Now sometimes, if it's not very good, as in very amateurish, you'll get a bunch of advice and comments. Some snarky, some helpful. I also would see this on other music forums, engineering and the like. Or even doing a mix for a client or for a band I'm either in, a part of or my own, when letting other participants listen. Very often I get NO COMMENTS.
IT USED TO FREAK ME OUT! I'm exaggerating. But it would be a mystery. Why can people not say ANYTHING?? Is it that bad??
Then I realized that folks get hung up in their own world. Nine times out of ten. If guitar playing is posted on a guitar forum sometimes people get hung up on their OWN playing. They compare themselves, or something. If it's a mix I did they get interiorized into listening to THEIR OWN PLAYING. They're not really hearing the mix. They're worrying about what the other guys think about them.
I posted a link to my new CD on a couple of forums I frequent. Not this one in particular. A big deal. Massive undertaking. I got a few nice comments, which I appreciated. In some cases I got zero comments. It's ok. But I think people just get wrapped in themselves. Even posting songs. You know, it is what it is.
And forget it if it's a friend. Sometimes THE WORST thing you can do is to release a CD or publish a book or something! Lol. I can't tell you how many times I've given a brand new CD to a close friend only to discover a year or two later it's sitting on a shelf with the shrink wrap still in it.
It's not personal. It's their problem.
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Last edited by henryrobinett; 01-17-2016 at 09:25 PM.
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Thanks brother! Originally Posted by henryrobinett
That's my son, actually, I got two boys. He's just in full costume. They spend most days dressed as batman and Robin (Halloween costumes, still haven't retired them)
These tunes are so fun to do solo...here's a few other Shorter tunes I did solo...
Plenty more kids in the background.
Shorter's writing is...I dunno...it's just the pinnacle, to me. So strong melodically, yet so free to interpret. O ly Oriente gets close...well, and Andrew Hill...but Hill's another story...what a genius...
But, this stuff doesn't fly as solo guitar
Last edited by mr. beaumont; 01-17-2016 at 09:28 PM.
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I feel your pain, Henry! I haven't done this with an official CD but often with tapes of my own tunes, published writings (-articles, stories, poems, whatnot) and most people say nothing. I've had 3-4 people who would listen to things and comment honestly. (And sometimes, honestly, they didn't like something, or liked one aspect of a song but not another.) I really appreciate those friends. And another one who told me, "Look, I love you but your singing is not my thing and I don't care for this style of music." I stopped sending him things and that didn't damage our friendship. Gradually we have to realize, "What is important to me may not matter at all to some people, even some people who know me and love me." It helps to remember that sometimes when they're telling me about what their up to, my mind wanders... ;o) Originally Posted by henryrobinett
And forget it if it's a friend. Sometimes THE WORST thing you can do is to release a CD or publish a book or something! Lol. I can't tell you how many times I've given a brand new CD to a close friend only to discover a year or two later it's sitting on a shelf with the shrink wrap still in it.
It's not personal. It's their problem..
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I have not had the opportunity to watch the videos yet regarding Nefertiti and the sessions. Got to sit down to dinner with the family. Can someone summarize what transpired? I will watch later tonight.
Henry, tell me what you think of the opening measures on the Miles Davis record when you have the opportunity to check. I suppose one could claim that an Abdim7 is like Abmaj7 but I don't hear it that way, nor the second and third chords as written out on that Jazz Advice and Fake Book.
Jeff, did you listen carefully? How do you hear those first eight measures or so? Nice interpretation.
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Yeah Mark. I hear you. But I think I'm referring to something just a little different. I'm NOT talking about taste, likes or dislikes. Here these two or three close friends NEVER listened. Or guys introverted into their own playing, lack of playing, feelings of inadequacy, etc. This is a slightly different sphere. Smiling, and being effusive taking the D and congratulating me, yet afterwards grumbling or something and hiding it on a shelf in its wrapping.
I busted two of my friends. They're very close friends so I could. One owned up immediately. The other denied it until he opened a restaurant and I didn't come. Then he called me apologizing, saying he now knows what I was talking about. I came to his place right away.
You gotta help people when they do creative endeavors, or anything. Especially of they're friends. And you can be honest if its not your cup of tea!
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I did, I just followed Ron Carter. Roots are pretty clear. Originally Posted by targuit
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For the record, I was out of the house. :-) Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
...and don't want to come across as too much of a fanboy.... I mean, what will people think if I like too many videos?
The Internet makes you crazy. Every once in a while I think of posting something on Facebook , but I haven't for a couple of years now I guess. So now I think , "what will people think about THAT being the first thing I posted in two years?" and so I don't post anything. :-)
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Lol, it's all good. I'm antsy for a reply from Targuit, it's 3 degrees outside and I'm mr. Mom tonight...there's a certain amount of cabin fever setting in. Oh well. I made kick ass tacos. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
Anywaaaaaaaay....my point being...
Shorter rules.
You can definitely adapt this stuff to solo guitar
Green Bay sucks
This stuff is harmonically dense....it's nice to have a plan going in....like...maybe....chord scales....because they aren't magic, they're logic..?
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I was around for the CST debates, here, a few years ago, when people were ready to kill each other over it. I thought it had kind of gone away. Mostly above my pay grade, but in the end, I decided most of it was semantics.
"Scales are simply chords stacked the wrong way" or "chords are simply scales stacked the wrong way". That's an oversimplification of it, and definitely not what is mostly being discussed here, now, but a lot of it, back then, was b.s. like that.
Both sides saying that the other side's way was more complicated and forced you to "think" too much while improvising. "It's simple. I just think of the relative minor of the tritone sub's cousin. It's so much more SIMPLE than chord scale theory". Mmkay... Y'all have fun arguing over that. Meanwhile, there are plenty of real players who think about these things in a variety of ways , and they all seem to be able to play with each other pretty well.
Whatever works, but you might want to be able to communicate with other musicians, whatever it is.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 01-17-2016 at 10:40 PM.
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Nope, you've got it.
A lot of people think it's one or the other, all or nothing. They are what I call hopeless.
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It's gong to take me another minute to listen to the other tracks Jeff! I got my 93 year old mom AND my wife to appease now. Why don't they understand the true life of a jazz guitarist!?
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It's all good! I gotta get the boys to sleep...all they wanna hear me play is the batman theme, you've got a friend in me from toy story (and I have to sing like randy newman) and because my kids are weird, they love Paul Butterfield s "shake your moneymaker."
My 4 year old told his preschool teacher that was his favorite song. We got a phone call.
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Wow. I should'a made my guitar playing much more integral to my children's childhood. Brilliant Jeff! They just saw Dad jamming in his studio or on the living room floor. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Jeff - I love Fall especially. Something about those Shorter tunes lends itself to great guitar interpretations. Thanks for the tip! Very well done!
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