Metronome exercises. Can you play good time using 4 beats to the bar?

[Christian Miller]

Why are you the way that you are?

No-one can answer that. I am an enigma to science.

[Christian Miller]

I always have my young 'uns (and not so young) go
"in your ear" -- so can you hear the rhythm you're about to play
"on your body or in your voice" -- can you sing it or clap it or tap it ... with rhythm, I think on your body is better and with feet thumping out the pulse is maybe best.
then "on your instrument."

Incredible how many problems that little process fixes.

TBH so long as you can hear/feel the rhythm and where you end up in a phrase, the other pitches aren't so important.

I find myself transcribing like that, at least at first. Notes are easier to fill in once you have the phrase. Maybe an argument for not slowing things down unless you absolutely have to.

[PickingMyEars]

Tapping out from this thread.

Maybe I'll bring back the ear training journal?

Then we can get back to people telling me that I'm wasting my time practicing shit

What I was talking about with tools vs. crutches applies to a DAW as well as the metronome.

I like what Pamosmusic said here:

I always have my young 'uns (and not so young) go
"in your ear" -- so can you hear the rhythm you're about to play
"on your body or in your voice" -- can you sing it or clap it or tap it ... with rhythm, I think on your body is better and with feet thumping out the pulse is maybe best.
then "on your instrument."

That's good pedagogy and it encourages independence for students of all ages

I didn't get the memo, aren't most of us folk using the jazz guitar forum learning and playing jazz standards? That's certainly my focus, whether I am studying Barry Harris or Jimmy Raney. I might be mistaken, but a lot of the song threads are about old songbook standards, hardbop, and some Wayne Shorter tunes.

Some of us have professional gigs. Some of us--like me--do jam sessions and play smaller gigs. Some play with our heroes. So for playing standards and straight ahead jazz... I'm right @Christian? (Hate @'ing people, but the quote method is cumbersome on my laptop--I think I might be the only one with font formatting issues on the website).

For those of us learning how to play jazz standards so we can play with others, is using a DAW best practice? If the usual advice is "practice how you play" then how do you access the visuals and fractions of a second that a DAW provides--on stage? Sounds less feasible than using a metronome all the time and expecting magic on stage when you are playing with a human drummer. These are tools, but they can so easily become crutches. Took me a while to carve out time where I wasn't using any metronome or backing track in my practice--because I want to "practice how I play."

[AllanAllen]

it feels like you're arguing against something no one is suggesting.

Isn't that the point of online discourse? To have emotionally driven one sided debates.

[GuyBoden]

Practising with the DAW and obsessing with being milliseconds late or milliseconds early gave me the kick in the arse that I needed.

Because I could see where I was in the grid, I could:

1. finally see the discrepancy between what I was imagining as being on time vs actually being on time

2. diagnose what it was in my picking/fretting hand that was causing me to rush or to create inconsistent time

3. devise a way to fix my picking/fretting hand problems

4. create mini technical games/challenges where I would record myself placing notes accurately (e.g. recording only 1 or 2 bars of myself strumming or picking a note consistently at the 2nd triplet of each quarter note or at the 4th sixteenth of each quarter note); once i have my quick recording, i can review immediately what went wrong and it's still fresh in my memory - was I counting/feeling the subdivision right? was I connecting that feeling with my fingers right?

5. teach myself to play some milliseconds behind the beat and teach my body what that felt like

As a hobbyist, the DAW has helped me improve quickly. I don't use the DAW all the time. I use it about once or twice a week for a few minutes to practise.

Yes, very good, that's similar to how I use the DAW grid/metronome, as a visual tool to check my time, but not even every week.

[pamosmusic]

For those of us learning how to play jazz standards so we can play with others, is using a DAW best practice? If the usual advice is "practice how you play" then how do you access the visuals and fractions of a second that a DAW provides--on stage?

Sounds less feasible than using a metronome all the time and expecting magic on stage when you are playing with a human drummer. These are tools, but they can so easily become crutches. Took me a while to carve out time where I wasn't using any metronome or backing track in my practice--because I want to "practice how I play."

As you’re fond of pointing out, the usual advice isn’t always the best advice.

But putting that aside for a moment, does that mean you should always play with a drummer? Always play in a bar? Only practice when there are people complaining so loudly about their food that you can’t hear the bass player?

No.

What if someone told you they wanted to play with a stronger, more even pulse and be able to subdivide more confidently and cleanly. If they’re to practice how they play, then what exactly would help them to ensure that their practice would look that way?

A metronome for a lot of people. Apparently a DAW for others. Trying to invalidate the practice strategies that work for someone else generally gets you a little less mileage than trying to understand them.

[Christian Miller]

Isn't that the point of online discourse? To have emotionally driven one sided debates.

To some it’s a bug, to some it’s a feature


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[djg]

Practising with the DAW and obsessing with being milliseconds late or milliseconds early gave me the kick in the arse that I needed.

Because I could see where I was in the grid, I could:

1. finally see the discrepancy between what I was imagining as being on time vs actually being on time

2. diagnose what it was in my picking/fretting hand that was causing me to rush or to create inconsistent time

3. devise a way to fix my picking/fretting hand problems

4. create mini technical games/challenges where I would record myself placing notes accurately (e.g. recording only 1 or 2 bars of myself strumming or picking a note consistently at the 2nd triplet of each quarter note or at the 4th sixteenth of each quarter note); once i have my quick recording, i can review immediately what went wrong and it's still fresh in my memory - was I counting/feeling the subdivision right? was I connecting that feeling with my fingers right?

5. teach myself to play some milliseconds behind the beat and teach my body what that felt like

As a hobbyist, the DAW has helped me improve quickly. I don't use the DAW all the time. I use it about once or twice a week for a few minutes to practise.

honest question. can you carry a tune? because this sounds like a hobby in itself. not trying to be mean or anything.

[pamosmusic]

honest question. can you carry a tune? because this sounds like a hobby in itself. not trying to be mean or anything.

we do sort of underestimate how good singing fly me to the moon in time with your gait while you snap on two and four can be for your swing feel

[pamosmusic]

Sometimes if you want to swing you just have to be okay with being “that guy.”

[AllanAllen]

we do sort of underestimate how good singing fly me to the moon in time with your gait while you snap on two and four can be for your swing feel

Now why is that so much easier to do than play it along to the 'nome set at 2 & 4?

[Christian Miller]

Try singing Anthropology while clapping the 2-3 clave

Now try singing the clave while playing it…


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[djg]

Sometimes if you want to swing you just have to be okay with being “that guy.”

i learned to play time from other people i played with.

[AllanAllen]

Brent, don’t you dare leave. You are an asset to this forum.

[AllanAllen]

Try singing Anthropology while clapping the 2-3 clave

Now try singing the clave while playing it…


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Haven’t gotten there yet. But, I’m ready to back burner Moose the Mooch.

Which do you think I should hit next? Anthropology or Confirmation

[pamosmusic]

i learned to play time from other people i played with.

sure that too.

[Christian Miller]

Berklee funk is the apex of Western civilisation and I’m tired of pretending it’s not


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[djg]

Berklee funk is the apex of Western civilisation and I’m tired of pretending it’s not

sorry. i deleted that post. i didnt mean to pick on anyone.

[pauln]

For best results, attach electrode to drummer?.

[djg]

I know you weren't being mean, but man, what a question to ask. Feels like can't I do anything right in my life, even playing this music as an unschooled amateur.

i am sorry. i'm usually too blunt for my own good and other's comfort.

it is my belief that mainstream jazz (and i think you love pre-war jazz) is folk music. a good place for an unschooled lover of the music, regardless how tight he is on the milliseconds. i have wasted many hours chasing ghosts.

[pamosmusic]

Now why is that so much easier to do than play it along to the 'nome set at 2 & 4?

Because you’ve been walking with rock solid time for several decades. Relatively speaking, the guitar thing is new.

[Christian Miller]

For best results, attach electrode to drummer?.

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[Christian Miller]

i am sorry. i'm usually too blunt for my own good and other's comfort.

it is my belief that mainstream jazz (and i think you love pre-war jazz) is folk music. a good place for an unschooled lover of the music, regardless how tight he is on the milliseconds. i have wasted many hours chasing ghosts.

Idk, I just wanted to know if I could actually play quarters on the click when I thought I was. Using a DAW to confirm if I was in fact doing that seemed like a good way to check.

Guess what? I was embarrassingly bad. I worked on it. I got better at it.

I’ve already received emails telling me I’m wrong or smth.

I mean tbf what I learned is I can actually hear it. Otoh I couldn’t hear anything when I was starting out. I think knowing what to listen for helps. A visual reference can help.

You know if my ability to synchronise accurately with a dumb old DAW is the difference between me getting a repeat call for paid gig or not, that’s what I’m going with. We live in 2026, clicks and DAWs are a fact of life if not ubiquitous.

I don’t think that’s what is going on with Elvin Jones or whatever. As I said click isn’t the be and end all. FFS some people need to learn to read. (Not you djg.)

I do also think learning to synchronise with things is a basic rhythm skill. I’ve said that multiple times. You don’t need to use a DAW to do that. But I found it good to check.

I think being able to quantify the effects of practice is good for mental health.

10 years ago I’d have argued the toss over it. I have come to the conclusion that it’s not worth being ideological over this stuff. There’s many ways to work on stuff. I’ve done all sorts of things.

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[Christian Miller]

Because you’ve been walking with rock solid time for several decades. Relatively speaking, the guitar thing is new.

But it may make you gravitate to one specific tempo.


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[Christian Miller]

Haven’t gotten there yet. But, I’m ready to back burner Moose the Mooch.

Which do you think I should hit next? Anthropology or Confirmation

Moose the mooche is in 3-2 clave

Most of the bird things are in 2-3 tho

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