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woland, Patrick2, knock it off. I'm going to love it AND leave it.
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08-09-2014 09:30 PM
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Bickin back bein' 'bol.
Originally Posted by Stevebol
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I have very high respect for club musicians, that is where Jazz is coming from and is about for me "PERFORMING", not a merchandise packaged for the masses on which majors ca$h and then give crumbles to the musicians... Originally Posted by Stevebol
There lies the problem, business trying to cater to the masses vs the Art itself, not if Jazz is black white or yellow music...
If it is not selling and thus not supported other than by its "real" fan based, it is because it is not attractive to the masses and that's it, nothing mysterious here!
I still persist to think Jazz is by far more race inclusive than many other music style...call me naive if you like!
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Jazz and politics have been intertwined from the beginning. Every country's native social music has a current of topical commentary running through it, like Reggae does, and jazz as well. Some people really have a problem with people expressing their opinions through their art and their work, based on their experiences, and express a feeling that people should know their place, which is on the entertainment plantation. McLaughlin's take was a picture of his circumstances and those of his peers, established jazz musicians in the top rank. The world is shifting into digital, and the analogue aspect that is essential to the music we call jazz runs counter to the drum-machine perfection demanded by the idiots that currently produce "pop".
Markets have shifted. Jazz can receive very good support from the non-profit sector, but you have to go after it by learning that world and its needs, and by creating a persona for yourself, your group or your music that bespeaks cultural connections, while putting your creative spin on it. There's quite a lot of money in the foundations and charitable corporations and grant programs, and jazz is generally far cheaper to produce than symphony or opera. Non-mainstream art forms have always been supported by the government, way back in the Renaissance period the best composers and players lived at court and gigged every day for every function. By my estimation, there are some 9,000 funded gigs throughout the USA every day, not necessarily including little school gigs in the daytime, although there is a need for high-quality creative music there as well, and funding available to make some nice pay. That's if you want to just play the music for a decent living. If you want to be a star, I know nothing.
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LOL - nah, man it is just friendly banter - we aint hating on each other. Originally Posted by Stevebol
I am not sitting here cursing and sharpening scalping knife ;-)
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How un-American. Originally Posted by Patrick2
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It shouldn't be looked at as love it or leave it . . unless you include . . or fix it. Those are our only three options. It's kind of cyclical here. It's good . . then it gets bad . . then it gets good again. But, we all have a say in it. Originally Posted by woland
Yeah . . don't even bother sharpening the scalping knife. Nothin' there to scalp. I lost my hair 3 decades ago. ;-)
Uh-oh!! I home we don't bring out the PC police telling us we're being offensive to Indians . . (oops! I mean native Americans)
Hey man, are there any Native American jazz musicians?
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LA huh? San Diego always keeps it real. Originally Posted by Broyale
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Hahahahaah! Originally Posted by Stevebol
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^^
That's the theme from 'Lawrence of Arabia'. I thought it gave the tune a desert vibe. San Diego isn't far from the desert.
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lol great to see the thread still going here's some more fuel
All that jazz isn?t all that great - The Washington Post
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somewhat relevant to this all including a rant about "exaltation of ignorance"....a little long, but it was CNN 1981....
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^^^
"Schools train people to be ignorant with style"
"A functional ignoramus"
Lol.
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Frank has a point about taxing the churches. They can't hide behind trusts which are just tax shelters.
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Thanks for that. Frank was an interesting guy. I did not expect him to come down so hard on unions! That he came down so hard on schools was no surprise. Originally Posted by djangoles
I give the interviewer a lot of credit---she asked good questions but did not try to force specific answers. I never thought I would be nostalgic for early-'80s television! ;o)
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This is WAY off topic, Steve. Many of our members come from countries where tax money funds churches. This is not an argument that has *anything* to do with jazz. This is not something that has anything to do with jazz and it is not something we need to pursue here. Originally Posted by Stevebol
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yea.... I like that Frank could piss off Liberals and Conservatives without missing a beat.....
basically he was what is now considered a hardcore Libertarian/John Birch type....
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I think he agreed with Nietzsche that "the party man becomes a liar." Originally Posted by djangoles
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OK Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Mark, I'm filthy rich due to public funding of music. Never have to work again. I'll leave this discussion up to teachers, writers or whoever. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
I'm just a club musician who hasn't worked in a long time. I should get more into theory. It will keep me out of trouble.
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A little off topic....
I remember on the day he died I was listening to the local NYC classical station...they were having an all day tribute to him by playing orchestral versions of his music....and in the most stuffy classical DJ voice ever, the announcer says..."and now for the next piece, we will listen to G Spot Tornado"
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No need to get snippy. I just don't think taxing churches is an argument that should be pursued here. I had no objection to your comment; I just didn't want this discussion to veer off in that direction. Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Ha! Wish I'd heard that. Originally Posted by djangoles
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McLaughlin bumped into a phenomenon that provokes a knee-jerk response in the US: he invoked government. Since the Reagan era that's a no sale. The typical reader of this forum--a person of some means (owners of archtop guitars aren't usually scuffling)--associate the "G" word with an entire liberal agenda, these days. As soon as Johnny Mac said "government," some listeners started hearing their pulses in their ears, I'd wager.
He did raise an interesting point, though. Europe and Asia treasure a truly unique aspect of American culture much more highly than does the US. Jazz is a vibrant force throughout parts of the world--_outside_ of the US. This is remarkable, but it is to be noted in passing. Don't think there is anything to be done about it.
The Golden Age of the recording industry, i.e., in which it was a means of supporting a comparatively large number of artists due to control of access to high quality recordings by the industry, is behind us--presumably forever. A generation of consumers and producers of music is now being raised that has never known a time when music wasn't freely downloadable. Getting that generation to pay for music is also a no sale.
Can't see the future. You know, it might be that the next big thing could be a Stephen Foster renaissance, performed with de-tuned 7-string guitars into EVH amps. Only...it will be freely downloadable.
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JM made it political. He points out the problem, saying jazz isn't doing well in the US compared to other places and then offers a solution- more government involvement. JM has been famous for a long time and might not understand the complexity of American culture in some ways. I don't believe jazz can be judged by the standards of western classical music. We can't even come to an agreement as to whether jazz is AA music. Originally Posted by Greentone
This discussion had no chance because of the way JM framed it.
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