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He's a KID. You're on TV. Give him a break... maybe encourage him to continue with jazz, instead of being an a-hole?
(sorry, it won't embed)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5rsCj...?feature=share
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03-08-2026 04:54 PM
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He definitely could be worse than a jerk but was nice to some people such as John McLaughlin.
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A lot of the players who worked with him have spoken fondly of him so he must have had good sides.
At the same time he was a junkie on and off for decades, occasionally a dealer, a wife beater and there are several instaces of him stealing writing credits.
So, not always, but not infrequently either
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you should check out the whole video, the house band has a young Joey D and Christian McBride.
there's a few trumpet players Miles is critiquing, the last being John Swana who went on to become a heavy hitter on the Philly scene. Miles notices Joey which effectively cuts off Swana's day. But not long after Joey finds himself in Miles' band.
p.s. back in the day I knew a young alto player that Wynton Marsalis critiqued harshly in a master class, it happens.
check out the push off of the host @ 2:00 hah!
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So, it sounds like he was cool to you if he thought you were deserving of being in his orbit. Otherwise, F-off.
In other words, a jerk. I know alot of "stars" are (Don Henley, Glenn Frey, Tom Petty, it's a very long list)... it's always so disappointing finding out. Never meet your heroes.
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I saw Miles once live in the 80's.That night he played with his back to the audience the entire show,kind of disrespectful i and others thought that attended that show.He acted like he didn't want to be there and his playing was mediocre that night.I told this story before on this forum and some idiot tried to say it was the same as a conductor does,but sorry it's not.I had the chance to see him again other times but didn't bother.Sometimes it's best just to admire someone's work from afar.
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The whole hero worship with music and many other things gets out of hand. Miles clearly was someone who had a personality problem among many. I like his tunes usually and some of his music for sure. He himself needed a lot of work in the area of being generally nice. This goes especially for the hero athletes that are even more well known because sports generally get more publicity.
That said Wes one of my favorite players seemed like a very likable fellow and was generally humble, at least from what I can see. I never met for sure but that is my take. Joe Pass I met a few times and he knew my father what he was in Synanon Rehad, was very nice and actually humble in many respects. He did though know he could play well but never a bit of arrogance.
To be sure there are guitarist on this forum who I know that while not heroes as such to me, but I respect and are monster players and wonderful friends. It reminds me of Big Mike who I originally encountered on forum many years ago. It was through guitars, but Big Mike is a wonderful human with an incredible spirit. In effect these are the unsung heroes of everyday music. In fact, I just had a text from him he has been wondering how I am doing with my aging mother in the nursing home. I could go on about others here, but we get the point.
Greatest is measured not in ability to play the guitar sometimes but in the interaction. Nothing better than getting together with like-minded players for dinner and conversation. On the radar screen some of the icon music giants could suffer the cancel culture for sure. Booze, drugs, and unhealth lifestyles haunt the music scene and public people well known. Maybe best to me an ordinary player who is just trying to play jazz and make the changes.
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In general, assholes are assholes, jerks are jerks, and they almost never change. It's possible, but very unlikely.
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I didn't really see any harsh criticisms. He told him he needed to practice and he wasn't wrong but I guess he was kind of cold about it. But, you're playing in front of a jazz great. How is he supposed to be? Unrealistic is thinking he'd jump from his chair in excitement for that....
Originally Posted by ruger9
TBH as a former band parent, I saw a lot of detrimental smoke blowing from other band parents. Kid is 10-11-12-13, completely sucks, but he's "cute" and it's "you did an amazing job". No, you didn't do an amazing job. You sucked, there's the truth, and in three to five more years when you are more adult in size and appearance those kind of remarks will hurt you, not benefit you. At those older ages actual competency will be expected and the foundation is laid at the middle school youth level.
My son played tenor sax....we, his parents, are both involved in music. So you pick up a sax, and you need to represent your family, not embarrass them. I explained that people, and your instructors, will expect him to excel beyond the run of the mill student. So yeah, there were times when I was a definitely a dick about practicing scales, in every key, all the way up and down the range. His efforts eventually netted him a Louis Armstrong award cause he did the work.
There is mostly only growth through pain and in most cases unwarranted high praise is actually a setback and contributes to self delusion and false pride. Random audience person said I sounded amazing is not fertilizer for greatness. If anything a sharp criticism from someone respected will motivate a serious student and a non-serious student will quit. But then I'm more from the "chuck a cymbal at charlie's head" school of thought so maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe I'm just a dick. Or both.
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I didn’t hear the kid play, but if he really was in D while the band was in Eb. That’s not great.
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I was at a concert of The Pretenders. The band would always do a Kinks song since Ray Davies was Chris Hynde's "hero". The band completes the Kinks' song Stop Your Sobbing and Hynde says "never fall in love with your hero". Davies and Hynde did end up having a daughter. Originally Posted by ruger9
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When I was an undergrad, there was an apochryphal story going around that Miles Davis had met the queen of England, and he told her "F**k off, b**ch"
One of my professors at the time, Bob Mover, had allegedly played with Miles*, so I asked him about it. He very quickly commented something to the effect of "Oh no, not true at all, Miles would never say something like that
...okay, well, maybe not never..."
*interestingly, Bob's Wikipedia page makes no mention of having worked with Miles.
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The whole thing about Encourage Kids Rather Than Be An Asshole reminds me of an interview with filmmaker Werner Herzog that I just heard on NPR this afternoon. He was railing against the whole "Participation Trophy" attitude that pervades student feedback: "Telling someone they're great when they aren't helps nobody. That student will be a stronger person and a better artist if they receive some genuine criticism, something substantial that will allow them to come back later with improved material/performance." (I'm paraphrasing.)
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This is not an excuse for the times he was a dick to people, but consider that the majority of people he met in life were racist assholes, interspersed with some random hero-worshippers. So there weren't many people that he could actually trust; the abrasive personality was a defense, a form of self-preservation.
As for this particular clip, thank you, wintermoon, for posting the whole show; I'll watch later to gain some context. Maybe the kid was awful and Miles WAS being nice. I find myself wondering what sort of contractual obligation put Miles in the position of critiquing 13-year-old players on TV. Who thought that was a good idea?Last edited by starjasmine; 03-08-2026 at 10:11 PM.
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who cares ?
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At 23:46 in the full show, the kid did one chorus of Green Dolphin Street in concert Cma, which would be written as Dma for Bb trumpet, and Miles said he shouldn't play in D but Eb. <UPDATE: Rest of conjecture deleted. Miles did the tune in Eb, which was why he asked. Pls see followup post below.>
As for the kid's playing... playing in front of Miles on TV at 13 years old is a lot of pressure. I'd say he did OK, though not without issues, and that Miles was being diplomatic, rather than outing the kid's shortcomings in detail.Last edited by starjasmine; 03-09-2026 at 01:54 PM.
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Yo DawgBone. Is concert D tricky on trumpet? What if Miles actually gave insightful advice and we’re ignorant because we don’t play horn?
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I had to dig a bit for my '58 sessions disc. Miles did GDS in concert Eb. So there's no weird transposition aspect to the question. He just asked the kid known as "Little Miles" why he wasn't doing GDS in Miles' key.
Interestingly, the original version done by Jimmy Dorsey and his Orchestra for the movie starts in Db concert and then modulates to B concert (1:29) for the vocal by Bill Lawrence.
One version cited at the bottom of the Real Book Vol 1 chart is from "Sonny Rollins on Impulse!" and that is in concert Eb.
Bill Evans "The Tokyo Concert", also cited at the bottom of the RB1 chart, does it in Cma; perhaps that is why the RB chart is in Cma.
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I like MD"s music.
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the kid played Green Dolphin Street in concert C, so D for trumpet. I think traditionally it's in concert Eb, so F for trumpet, so Miles comment kinda made sense but confusing at the same time.
The kid sounded ok, just like a student, which he was, but Miles 'harsh' comment meant (to me) as he took him as a serious student, who needs a serious advice not just participation trophy. So in that sense I don't see Miles being a jerk at all, and hopefully the kid understood it right, if even maybe later.
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I agree with the opinion that the "participation trophy thing" does more harm than good in the long run. But that's not what that video clip was about. Miles didn't have to praise the kid and tell him he "did great"- a lie is not required. But being NICE while handing out valid criticism, making sure the CHILD understands you're not telling him he's BAD, is very important in encouraging someone to keep going. Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
And, this isn't the first time (not even close) I've read/heard that Miles could be a dick. True enough, the guys that he invited into the band were treated fine ... again, because he saw you as "worthy", but I've read of many encounters with others where he was just a jerk, couldn't be bothered by the likes of you. Why people like that even do press... it's obvious he doesn't want to be there... Reminds of of John Mellencamp recently, on his solo acoustic tour he was playing many new songs and deep cuts, not his hits... and the audience let him know they'd like to hear his hits, and Mellencamp started arguing and berating his own audience. Interestingly, after that tour he immediately booked a "greatest hits" tour. At least he heard his audience - the reason for his success - seriously, and will be giving them what they want.
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I have loved jazz since I was about 6 years old and used to play my parents' Woody Shaw, Gary Burton or Santana records over and over again.
When I started playing guitar, I didn't have a teacher and just played by ear. When I went to my first workshop, I experienced my Waterloo moment: I couldn't play anything decent, and my teachers and bandmates were convinced that I was the worst player in the entire universe.
That's fine with me now, but they could have been a little kinder in their comments.
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If your playing has never been criticised, you've not been playing enough.
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People following this thread might find his autobiography interesting:
Miles: The Autobiography | Miles Davis Official Site
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He worked hard for what he made, which was extraordinary and singular.
He lived and worked in a world that would have torn a lesser man down.
He suffered the judgements, prejudices, categorizations of so many he couldn't respect and ostensibly couldn't respect him.
He created extraordinary genius level art with people he found whom he could form a community of peers with, and these people spoke highly of him.
He saw the world in colours that others couldn't even imagine, and he suffered the pronouncements of those who saw the world in black and white; or Geniuses and Assholes.
There will only be one Miles. He wasn't a god, and he wasn't a demon.
I hear a lot of people talk trash about artists because they're held to a standard of divinity strictly because of an idea of what a great human being should be. Miles was a very human being and he made art that touches people in a way that is more than just pretty.
If it bothers people that he had an acerbic side, then celebrate that he's dead now.
If you want to know what it is to know the spectrum of the human experience, listen to his music.
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For me, the answer is a simple "yes". Read his biographies for some spporting information. The "autobiography" he co-wrote with Quincy Troupe is a lot kinder to him than Ian Carr's detailed biography. He stole from the guys with whom he played. He lied to his family by not telling them he dropped out of Julliard (keeping the tuition money his father gave him when he was no longer a student). There are endless stories like these, validated by interviews with the greats who shared his spotlight.
A sadly deceased friend of mine name Chuck Berlin was an excellent piano player who played with Al Hirt many years ago. He told me he was playing with Hirt at Hirt's club in NOLA and walked off the stand for a break, passing a man sitting by himself with his head down. As Chuck walked by, the man said, "You made a mistake" and told him in detail how he'd played the wrong chord in a specific bar of the head. He never looked up or at Chuck, and that's all he said. It was Miles.
It seems that Cicely Tyson made great strides in turning Miles into a better human and helping him overcome a lot of his addictive behavior. Robben Ford says in interviews that Miles was very nice to him during his short stay in the band (which he left on his own). MIke Stern says that Miles was funny and sweet. I think there was a clear improvement in his behavior and attitude after he and Tyson were together. But for much of his life, he was by all accounts a miserable bastard. We can debate why 'til the cows come home, and we can try to justify it on many levels. But as I see it, Miles was a pretty terrible person for a very long time.
FWIW, he was never impoverished or abused in any way if the biographies are accurate, and he grew up in a cultured and educated family. His father was an oral surgeon IIRC, and his mother was a teacher. While he may have responded understandably and appropriately to many of the racial, economic, and social pressures on an affluent black family in a white dominated world that resented them for it, I don't see any of that as justification for stealing money from fellow musicians (read about it in Carr's bio).
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