-
Enalnitram is probably right...at least to some degree. It was not fame that made him behave like a jerk. However, fame does ALLOW people in our culture to behave like jerks. We give unreasonable permission to the famous to behave in unacceptable (and often criminal ways). It works to the detriment of those who come in contact with these individuals.
We do no one any favors by treating the famous as we do. Those who are famous frequently experience untimely death beacuse of the wide berth socitey lays at their feet. When the rich and famous behave badly they often dont even realize they are being jerks. They think they are good people. In part this is becuase almost no one offers a firm check to their moral compass (or lack thereof). Its difficult to regulate emotions and behaviors in a vaccuum.
-
03-10-2026 11:48 AM
-
I see what you did there!
Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
What I read about that was pretty bad and if true should really affect Einstein's reputation. Einstein's first wife was a brilliant physicist who worked with him on the ideas that he won the Nobel prize for. She received no credit for that. When they divorced she demanded (and received) a settlement exactly equal to the Nobel prize money. She did not pursue any further recognition, supposedly because she wanted Einstein to stay close to their two surviving sons.
If true I guess that would be worse behavior than Miles' misdeeds. As far as we know Miles did his own playing at least.
-
I was disappointed when I discovered famous icons are faulty humans. I guess I wanted to believe when you obtain
fame and fortune you are immune to frailty--ahh but not so.
So upon this discovery..how does it affect me personally..do I stop supporting the person/team/organization/corporation/political group et al
stop going to their games/movies/concerts/etc
Or do I realize it for what it is and look beyond it..meaning my feeling hurt by the behavior of others is really self inflicted
and then of course..How many times am I disappointed by my own behavior.
-
As a theologian I know a lot about both assholes and saints... and often they are the same person. Originally Posted by John A.
-
Was Miles always a jerk?
No, nobody's a jerk all the time.
-
I read the autobiography written by Troupe, I agree it's entertaining but very much a puff piece.
I haven't read Carr's book.
But an excellent book - extensively detailed and lots of primary resources not previously used- is "Three
Shades of Blue" by James Kaplan.
Goes into great detail about 3 giants- Davis, Coltrane and Bill Evans.
A common thread for all 3 is how serious and long-lasting their addictions were, and how much it hurt them.
I've followed jazz all my life, and there's a lot in this book that you likely never read before, or in greatly expanded detail and meaning.
3 Shades of Blue by James Kaplan: 9780525561026 | PenguinRandomHouse.com: Books
-
Hold my beer... Originally Posted by ragman1
-
We saw what you did there. Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
-
I do not understand this approach... if I am a musician and my son picks up a musical instrument all he has to do is to have fun with it... of course I must teach him that some discipline might be needed, that sometimes you have to overcome...My son played tenor sax....we, his parents, are both involved in music. So you pick up a sax, and you need to represent your family, not embarrass them.
But to succeed in something just because he 'represents a family' or 'not to embarrass the family'... sorry (for being a jerk) but it is a total crap for me...
-
Fair enough. Substitute “mensch” if you prefer. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
-
Fame IS (can easily be) a drug. Originally Posted by enalnitram
-
The Pretenders covered "Stop Your Sobbing" on their debut album (1980). I don't think she had yet met Ray Davies, though she would soon after. They were a combustible pair that cast a mighty bright light while they lasted. Originally Posted by jameslovestal
-
In thinking about the subject of this post, I remind myself: the personalities of great musicians (and all the rest of us) are formed before we start playing.
We hear someone and think (perhaps rightly), "he's great" and assume that because they're great and (perhaps) successful, they should be grateful, nice, patient, open, and all the rest. But they were either that way or not before they became a great musician, or even a first-grade student.
People are themselves early on. Change is possible though never assured.
-
When was that video from, late 1980's? At that time, there was a real sense of transition between jazz being learned 'on the bandstand" from mentors and apprenticeships, and it being an academic pursuit. That the kid did Green Dolphin in the Real Book key instead of the key of Miles' famous version was going to be an issue. At least he didn't play "Four"...
I remember having an opportunity to sit in with Jimmy Bruno back then. I could tell he was skeptical about inviting me up on stage. He called Green Dolphin and when I said "Eb, right?" he warmed up considerably...
PK
-
I’ve come across this clip many times. I like that Miles told the kid that he himself knows what he needs to do.
Sometimes being kind isn’t the same thing as being nice.
-
I'll explain. I would guess you have/would have some your standards for your kid(s), which probably include passing high school with decent grades and maybe even getting a degree or a trade i.e some level of academic excellence. Well, I had mine and they were clear cut. 1) you won't become a piece of shit human being while living in my house and 2) if you play an instrument, you will excel in a way that reflects your background of growing up in a musical home. Originally Posted by Jonah
Everything outside of that, including his performance in his other classes, was something I was personally indifferent to. So I would suggest my expectations were probably lower overall than most parents which will also make me a jerk in some people's perspective. Do I care? No, I do not. Every parent will have different standards based on their own experiences and preferences. Those were mine.
-
As Miles might have said, if he were a different guy:
"It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice."
-
At long last, no more damning with faint praise. It’s non-pejorative honorable menschen! Originally Posted by John A.
-
Seems pretty simple.
Miles was, by all accounts, a very complicated dude and pretty terrible in his personal relationships.
In terms of how it should impact the way we lead or behave in bands:
Very very very very very few people have the talent to overcome being thought of as a jerk. Once you start falling off people's call lists, you very quickly find yourself with a lot of free time on your hands. You might be thinking that you agree because you only know a couple people that are that good. But honestly, you probably don't. Some markets like New York have a small number of those people, but most markets don't have any at all.
Musicians are in the enviable position of mostly choosing who their co-workers are going to be from night to night and no one is going to choose to work with a jerk if they don't have to.
-
I don’t think Miles is being a jerk here, at all. “He knows how he sounds” is respectful. Most kids have plenty of people telling them how great they are and how well they’re doing. That isn’t necessarily what a talented kid needs 24/7.
-
Sure, kids these days.
-
Just on the basis of that TV event, he wasn't a "jerk." But that was 1986, his health was already seriously declining, and he was dead 5 years later. If you watch the full show, at one point Boggs pulls out and hands him a purple trumpet and says (I'm paraphrasing from memory here) "What do you feel when you have this in your hands?" Miles goes..."Whoa!..." Then says".....I can't play this trumpet; it's not the right color", and everybody laughs. But he still didn't play it; his skills and stamina were already in serious decline, and his career at that point largely due to the great organizational support he had from Marcus Miller.
People don't generally view Davis as a genius who "burned out" like Mozart, Charlie Parker, Jimi Hendrix, Lenny Breau, etc. But (at least imho) he was.
-
yep great book! Originally Posted by Joseph2
i wrote to mr Kaplan and let him know how good it was, and he graciously thanked me.
-
There’s nothing wrong with the kid or with Miles. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
-
Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
Reply With Quote
Has anyone tried the JHS Clover preamp pedal?
Yesterday, 05:41 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos