Was Miles always a jerk?

[2bornot2bop]

Judging, Judgment, is what all humans do.

All I’ll say is, unless you’ve actually walked in Miles’, or someone else’s shoes, who are you to judge him or anyone else?

Miles wasn’t always a junkie. He got clean in the mid 50’s, and as a result Columbia signed him to one of the biggest contracts, at the time, for a jazz artist.

During the comeback in 1956, or so, is when the fandom began simply because no one sounded like him and it was cool. Who else would create a soundtrack simply by playing to what they saw on film in 1956?

Best quote I ever heard about Miles was when he went to Newport Jazz Festival director George Wein, after years of struggling to keep steady work due to his habit, and told George “you can’t have a festival without me George.”

George gave Miles another chance. The rest became history. I only wish I’d have been around to see it.

[2bornot2bop]

I expect very little from people on the whole, and I'm delighted to say they largely exceed my expectations. Don't readjust your expectations though...

no expectations, no broken hearts.

[2bornot2bop]

I read the autobiography written by Troupe, I agree it's entertaining but very much a puff piece.
I haven't read Carr's book.

But an excellent book - extensively detailed and lots of primary resources not previously used- is "Three
Shades of Blue" by James Kaplan.
Goes into great detail about 3 giants- Davis, Coltrane and Bill Evans.
A common thread for all 3 is how serious and long-lasting their addictions were, and how much it hurt them.

I've followed jazz all my life, and there's a lot in this book that you likely never read before, or in greatly expanded detail and meaning.

3 Shades of Blue by James Kaplan: 9780525561026 | PenguinRandomHouse.com: Books

I posted about it 3 years ago

3 Shades of Blue - Miles, Trane, Evans, and The lost empire of cool

[Jonah]

I'll explain. I would guess you have/would have some your standards for your kid(s), which probably include passing high school with decent grades and maybe even getting a degree or a trade i.e some level of academic excellence. Well, I had mine and they were clear cut. 1) you won't become a piece of shit human being while living in my house and 2) if you play an instrument, you will excel in a way that reflects your background of growing up in a musical home.

Everything outside of that, including his performance in his other classes, was something I was personally indifferent to. So I would suggest my expectations were probably lower overall than most parents which will also make me a jerk in some people's perspective. Do I care? No, I do not. Every parent will have different standards based on their own experiences and preferences. Those were mine.

up to you… but for me it seems crazy…

I do not care if they graduate from university or not …

All I want them is to be decent human beings, fair to themselves and ready to protect their integrity and respectful to others. And possibly happy.

My kids do not owe me more than to any other person in spiritual sense.

In material sense I pay for them now, and for this my only hope is that when time comes they will do the same for their children to support them in their aspirations.

I do not acknowledge much credits for myself for the way they are, I try but I have no idea how it works out at the end. How exactly the children experience forms a future adult person?
You never really know…

[Cunamara]

So upon this discovery..how does it affect me personally..do I stop supporting the person/team/organization/corporation/political group et al stop going to their games/movies/concerts/etc.

I was raised Catholic; I will never go to a Catholic church again except possibly for a wedding or a funeral, and then it is only out of respect for that person. The reason for my decision is generations of pedophile priests preying upon children in their communities and the Church hierarchy that hid them, enabled them and shielded them from the law. I was not personally a victim of that, thankfully, but as far as I'm concerned the Catholic Church lost its legitimacy by doing so.

There are retailers I will not do business with for various reasons related to the lack of moral compass of those corporations and/or their leadership. There are musicians that I will not go hear perform.

Or do I realize it for what it is and look beyond it..meaning my feeling hurt by the behavior of others is really self inflicted and then of course..How many times am I disappointed by my own behavior.

Bullshit. The victims "hurt by the behavior of others" such as pedophile priests is not self-inflicted. It was inflicted by the perpetrators. And what does that last sentence even mean? That any pain that your behavior causes others is really their problem and self-inflicted, rather than being your responsibility?

[Kirk Garrett]

I was raised Catholic; I will never go to a Catholic church again except possibly for a wedding or a funeral, and then it is only out of respect for that person. The reason for my decision is generations of pedophile priests preying upon children in their communities and the Church hierarchy that hid them, enabled them and shielded them from the law. I was not personally a victim of that, thankfully, but as far as I'm concerned the Catholic Church lost its legitimacy by doing so.

There are retailers I will not do business with for various reasons related to the lack of moral compass of those corporations and/or their leadership. There are musicians that I will not go hear perform.



Bullshit. The victims "hurt by the behavior of others" such as pedophile priests is not self-inflicted. It was inflicted by the perpetrators. And what does that last sentence even mean? That any pain that your behavior causes others is really their problem and self-inflicted, rather than being your responsibility?

You’ll find grave sin throughout humanity in power, everywhere it exists.

[DawgBone]

up to you… but for me it seems crazy…

All I want them is to be decent human beings, fair to themselves and ready to protect their integrity

You say it seems crazy then go on to agree with what I said, almost verbatim. Not becoming a piece of shit human being. And delivering some level of musical excellence when coming from a musical family....both of those things are protecting his integrity. If he sucked it's going to be "aren't his parents musicians?!" behind his back. I didn't want that for my kid. He was welcome to quit at any time, but while you are enrolled, and living in my house, you will excel. There really isn't much more to read into there.

[Jonah]

You say it seems crazy then go on to agree with what I said, almost verbatim. Not becoming a piece of shit human being. And delivering some level of musical excellence when coming from a musical family....both of those things are protecting his integrity. If he sucked it's going to be "aren't his parents musicians?!" behind his back. I didn't want that for my kid. He was welcome to quit at any time, but while you are enrolled, and living in my house, you will excel. There really isn't much more to read into there.

No I don’t ’not becoming a shity person while living in my house’ is not the same as ‘ being a decent person’.

and I would prefer they would ignore what somebody says about them behind their back and feel confident.

‘the kids of such parents…’ ( with a sigh) it happens only about music… as in your case.
But about anything especially in growth period: your mom was such a nice girl and you… your dad was so good at foreign languages and you…

They can be different, they should do things for enjoyment and pleasure.

And I will never agree that one should excel in music to avoid someone saying something behind his back or comparing with anyone…
One should excel only to get more joy out of playing

[DawgBone]

No I don’t ’not becoming a shity person while living in my house’ is not the same as ‘ being a decent person’.

and I would prefer they would ignore what somebody says about them behind their back and feel confident.

‘the kids of such parents…’ ( with a sigh) it happens only about music… as in your case.
But about anything especially in growth period: your mom was such a nice girl and you… your dad was so good at foreign languages and you…

They can be different, they should do things for enjoyment and pleasure.

And I will never agree that one should excel in music to avoid someone saying something behind his back or comparing with anyone…
One should excel only to get more joy out of playing

"Not becoming a piece of shit human" is the same as "being a decent person". Worded a little differently, still the same basic thing

He had a strong interest in music prior to picking up the tenor sax. It was really a matter of demanding he did the work, like a million parents out there tonight are demanding their kid do their math/science/history/etc. I would hope that if you have additional experience in a given field that you would also expect a little more than grade C level work in the same related course from your kid otherwise to me it just makes it seem like you don't really care. Enjoyment and pleasure is for after the work is completed, not before. Anyways, think as you wish.

[wintermoon]

Miles wasn’t always a junkie. He got clean in the mid 50’s, and as a result Columbia signed him to one of the biggest contracts, at the time, for a jazz artist.

He did quit heroin but got heavy into coke and booze later. he obviously wasn't the only one though.

[starjasmine]

Respectfully, Dawg, consider that every individual has different aptitudes. My Dad was a professional chemist and physicist. He tutored me extensively to help me get through Chem class with a B when I was in high school. I was an A student in math and English, never needed his help there, but I didn't have much aptitude for chemistry. He didn't shame me for it, just tried to help me.

My brothers were star athletes in high school. I was not. I played music professionally starting at age 15; they never did.

So, you be you, not telling you to do otherwise, but understand that your kids are not you.

[2bornot2bop]

I was raised Catholic; I will never go to a Catholic church again except possibly for a wedding or a funeral, and then it is only out of respect for that person. The reason for my decision is generations of pedophile priests preying upon children in their communities and the Church hierarchy that hid them, enabled them and shielded them from the law. I was not personally a victim of that, thankfully, but as far as I'm concerned the Catholic Church lost its legitimacy by doing so.

There are retailers I will not do business with for various reasons related to the lack of moral compass of those corporations and/or their leadership. There are musicians that I will not go hear perform.



Bullshit. The victims "hurt by the behavior of others" such as pedophile priests is not self-inflicted. It was inflicted by the perpetrators. And what does that last sentence even mean? That any pain that your behavior causes others is really their problem and self-inflicted, rather than being your responsibility?

that’s kind of ironic to me for it wasn’t 2 nights ago that I viewed 2015’s academy award best picture, Spotlight, for the upteenth time. The film was a script about what the Pulitzer Prize winning work by the Boston Globe did to expose the Catholic Church. You may have heard about it. If not it’s got an all star cast and worth a watch.

[2bornot2bop]

He did quit heroin but got heavy into coke and booze later. he obviously wasn't the only one though.

yes, I know. That’s why addicts go to meetings because once an addict, always an addict. It’s common to shift to another drug. And who wasn’t doing coke in the 70’s. Well, I never tried it but I’m a wuss!