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lol … so the triplet can be made more of a triplet, less of a triplet, a faster triplet, a slower triplet, or not a triplet, but you’re all goobers and know-nothings for saying it’s more complicated.
Originally Posted by jazzyfan
Got it.
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05-13-2025 06:19 PM
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The sarcasm gets old mate. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Nobody is a "know-nothing". It's possible to over-complicate a simple thing.
It's a triplet.
There can be an entire world in that triplet, but it's a triplet at its root.
It's ok to admit that it's simple at the root.
It's ok to be wrong.
And if I'm wrong, what is the swing feel built on?
Correct me.
I'm all ears, and unlike you I don't traffic in sarcasm.
I'm ready to be corrected.
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oh I must have misunderstood: Originally Posted by jazzyfan
and (with due respect) I think that you don't actually know much about this topic at all.etc etcTalk about clueless on this topic, and yet still pontificating endlessly about it.
Your shtick gets old too.
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and to answer the question … there’s a triplet subdivision that is common at certain tempos, it straightens out at faster tempos, the quarter note triplet, articulation, articulation, articulation, accent patterns, rhythmic tension, line shape. It’s all in there. Theres a whole thread, it’s linked somewhere in this monstrosity. Originally Posted by jazzyfan
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I don't have a "shtick". Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I just have an aversion to BS and misinformation, and so I call it out.
But if I'm so manifestly wrong, correct me.
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So you finally admit it is a triplet? Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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not all the time, no. And not only. Originally Posted by jazzyfan
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Have you ever listened to Charlie Parker? He runs quicker subdivisions that are straight rhythms and not triplets like 16th notes and 32nd notes that contribute to the swing. Everything isn't 'triplet'. Originally Posted by jazzyfan
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What an unpleasant chap
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don’t talk about me like that Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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You know what's really unpleasant? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
The inability to admit you may be mistaken, and you've "dug in" and find yourself replying sarcastically.
That's unpleasant.
All I've "said" is that swing is governed by the triplet feeling.
That (of course) flattens out as the tempo moves up....anyone knows these things.
the other reply about Parker using 16ths etc....Well of course.
Any subdivisions smaller than 8ths are played straight and late.
Normal procedure.
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You know it’s interesting how more and more nuance keeps coming in even while keep telling people they’re wrong and dug in. Originally Posted by jazzyfan
Remember, after all, that you started with this:
Like … what does it mean for swing to be “governed by the triplet” when the triplet “flattens out” as the tempo increases? Originally Posted by jazzyfan
Sounds actually like it’s not VERY simple.
Is there a tempo where it’s a true triplet? Is it most tempos? Is it any tempo? What happens when you slow down? Can you swing even when your rhythm is straight, even at a slow tempo? Does a blues dude swing when he plays a shuffle? Is it the same kind of swinging? What’s the difference? What about those other underlying rhythms? Quarter note triplet? Clave etc?
If any of those questions are relevant, then maybe you’re being a little dismissive and your confidence is a little misplaced and not everyone around you is clueless.
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My position hasn't shifted one teeny bit. Not a bit. I'm not revising anything at all. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
At fast tempos where the triplet is very "flat", it's still a triplet.
That underlying grid NEVER changes. Articulating it DOES change, but it's still the good-old-triplet underneath.
It's swing, and as such it's triplet-based.
Articulating the tied triplet/swing 8ths changes according to tempo, but also according to the era of music.
As we know, earlier styles of jazz tended to play those triplets with what seems to be an exaggerated style today.
Lester Young is the first earlier jazzer to flatten the 8ths and allow the 2nd 8th to make more of the "swing"...Parker built on that.
But it's all still the triplet, and you guys are trying to say that it's not.
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Still finding it funny someone lecturing us about swing who thinks John McLaughlin or Allan Holdsworth couldn't swing.
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lets take jimmy cobb. sometimes he liked just quarter notes on the cymbal. a drummer might just play 2 and 4 on a hihat. do quarter notes swing or is swing based on eight notes? does sam jones playing quarter notes swing? discuss
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Yep. 'Swing is triplet.'
- But there are other rhythms going on.
- Doesn't matter, swing is triplet.
- Well why isn't swing quarter note and everything else is based on that? :P
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Jaco probably had a different opinion... somewhere I heard him say on John McLaughlin...I can't find it on youtube. Originally Posted by James W
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For sure quarter notes swing. Originally Posted by djg
lets take jimmy cobb. sometimes he liked just quarter notes on the cymbal. a drummer might just play 2 and 4 on a hihat. do quarter notes swing or is swing based on eight notes? does sam jones playing quarter notes swing? discuss
Bass player with quarter notes on the ride should swing for sure.
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Jaco was wrong obviously. Originally Posted by kris
What do you think?
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I have to admit you didn’t convince me on Mancuso. But point to James on this one. Originally Posted by James W
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I proclaim that John McLaughlin swingeth. Originally Posted by James W
Like what I think matters, lol. Joey DeFrancesco and Dennis Chambers, damn.
I watched a non-Beato interview with Matteo where he talks about nuts and bolts. He's thoughtful and knows his stuff. He talks about listening being the most important thing.
He's known for his absurdly good technique. That's what puts people in the seats at his concerts, so he has to give them what they want.
If I were to judge, in the OP clip he sounds a bit on autopilot, especially when he kicks on the distortion. Personally I hope he gets less notely as he grows and develops. But even if he mostly plays fast he doesn't lose the feel, he's always in the pocket, and it always makes sense. Too often people play fast and sound disconnected from the rest of the music, but Matteo always does.
Does he swing? fuck if I know, but he sounds good, and that's what matters. The music they were playing was pretty straight sounding, and he played to that.
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That’s not the bit I find unpleasant. Originally Posted by jazzyfan
In any case if you are developing basic swing feel, learning to sing an accurate upbeat on the last triplet of every beat is a valuable thing to practice. I teach it myself.
I mean, if one can’t do, one should learn to.
It is not the alpha and omega.
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Yeah I mean, the swing thing for me is not so central. I think Matteo has accurate time when soloing…. More than me haha. Let alone the chops … Originally Posted by supersoul
There’s a lot of internet hype for some players … but there’s people who I feel deserve more hype than they get.
As a listener there’s some very notey players around who also really engage me musically, I really enjoy Pedro Martins for example. Such a talented musician and such a central part of the Caipi band. I saw him with this project with Kurt and I had no idea he was such a shredder lol. Shades of Allan of course. On a rickenbacker apparently (???)
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What do you think about Dan Wilson? Originally Posted by James W
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swing a ding ding. Originally Posted by kris
Interestingly, he has said that he makes every student learn a few choruses of "No. 1 Green St." because it is the epitome of swing, but also his feel is often a little straighter.
He also calls those sort of medium-slow swing tempos -- maybe 90-110 or something -- "adult tempos." Those slower tempos being harder to swing without double timing.
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