JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 6) - Night Dreamer

[Hep To The Jive]

with the Tenor sax and the big tone you can get with one there are ideas like the ones Wayne is playing that simply don’t work with a clean archtop. Something about the instrument forces you to be more harmonic and changes oriented. And more laid back as well I find. Which is fine for a certain type of gig and band.

If you need a ‘weight of sound’; distorted electric can give you that. And some ambience on the tone. (Chorus too actually although everyone hates that now haha.)

That’s how I tend to use it in jazz. I tend to avoid bending and vibrato etc though (unless I really am ‘rocking out’ lol). I’m aiming more for a sax like sound.

Tele can sound a bit thin though. My ES175 sounds immense through a tube screamer

Tele can be ok, with the right speaker. I recorded through the laptop speaker, everything would sound thin lol

I think I already told the story, I heard one of my student practicing in far room with distortion, he didnt master the vibrato yet, and I thought the guitar sounded just like a sax from distance. It was a revelation.

But I do love vibrato though. Django, Sco, Mike Stern, Bill Frisell all use it, I have no shame either. Besides it's probably the best thing I do on guitar anyway. Can't catch them with my bebop lines yet.

[djg]

with the Tenor sax and the big tone you can get with one there are ideas like the ones Wayne is playing that simply don’t work with a clean archtop. Something about the instrument forces you to be more harmonic and changes oriented. And more laid back as well I find. Which is fine for a certain type of gig and band.

If you need a ‘weight of sound’; distorted electric can give you that. And some ambience on the tone. (Chorus too actually although everyone hates that now haha.)

That’s how I tend to use it in jazz. I tend to avoid bending and vibrato etc though (unless I really am ‘rocking out’ lol). I’m aiming more for a sax like sound.

Tele can sound a bit thin though. My ES175 sounds immense through a tube screamer

grant green had it all figured out 60 years ago. he would have had no problem fitting in and more than holding his own on night dreamer. same with sonny greenwich.

[christianm77]

grant green had it all figured out 60 years ago. he would have had no problem fitting in and more than holding his own on night dreamer. same with sonny greenwich.

Actually when you said that, I could hear him playing it right away. Cranked tweed amp or whatever it was he was using back then.

[mr. beaumont]

Grant was without a doubt one of the first guitar players to fare well in "modal" and "modern" situations.

Wish there were more dates like Morgan's "Search for the New Land."

[ragman1]

This stuff is above my paygrade but I've just listened to Herbie Hancock read his autobiography (audible freebie).

Miles' comment at one session was along the lines of 'mofo - I swear you write this shit just to piss me off'

In fact, that's not a bad test... if you're not p--- off trying to do it you're probably... (you fill it in :-))

[TOMMO]

Actually when you said that, I could hear him playing it right away. Cranked tweed amp or whatever it was he was using back then.

Ampeg combo is what I have read (Rocket or similar model)...

[ragman1]

I don't know if anyone's interested in this any more, but...

Here's a short thing. After the (rather badly played) tune there are two entirely diatonic solos that just outline the chords as read:

G maj/EbM7 (Eb maj) x3
Ebm7/Ab7
E7 - F7
G maj/Eb maj x2

But the 3rd solo uses the subs we've so far worked out:

G/Gm (Bb maj lydian) x3
Bbm
F#m/Gm
G/Gm x2

The question is how much difference does it really make to the ear? And I'd say not a lot, although the subs do make it a little more tuneful perhaps.

Of course, if we hadn't struggled with it we wouldn't have known. But that's the downside and the benefit of the 'creative process'... painful but worth it.

[Ronstuff]

Ampeg combo is what I have read (Rocket or similar model)...

Wow, I have that amp! A 1960 Ampeg Mercury. Although it could also be a Rocket as noted. But I believe the Rockets came later and this is the 1961 sessions. I've been listening to alot of Grant Green lately. "Solid" and Larry Young's "Into Something" and "Talking about JC".

[PickingMyEars]

As I said before, I love Grant Green's playing.

And Search for New Land is one of my favorite Lee Morgan albums.

Grant Green was on everything! I LOVE his stuff with organ. From Baby Face Willette to Larry Young. His stuff with Big John Patton is EXTRA funky. And live at the Lighthouse, that's fonky (apparently that's when the funk goes into overdrive and you board a UFO with Bootsy and crew...)

Grant Green gets it. Feel. Pocket. Like a horn without trying to play a million notes a minute. The art of the phrase. The art of musical punctuation. The art of letting the space speak as much as the notes you pluck outta yer guitar. That said, Grant Green had chops for days. A DEEP mudda if I ever did... shut your mouth. Hey, I was only talking 'bout Grant Green

[djg]

Grant was without a doubt one of the first guitar players to fare well in "modal" and "modern" situations.

Wish there were more dates like Morgan's "Search for the New Land."

[mr. beaumont]

I don't think anybody got closer to Tranes concept on guitar than Sonny.

Maybe Tisziji Munoz...but its close.

[Ronstuff]

Jeff, I agree with Sonny Greenwich and Tisziji Munoz and the Coltrane link. There was some mention of archtop and overdrive earlier. I read this new book last summer: Of Stars and Strings: A Biography of Sonny Greenwich by Mark Miller - Jazz da Gama There's a link between both players that I was not aware of...

Ron

[neatomic]

I don't think anybody got closer to Tranes concept on guitar than Sonny.

sonny sharrock that is!

cheers

[lawson-stone]

I really can't shake the idea that if I'm in this group I need to do the tune. But as you know, I'm not totally comfortable, to say the least, with this. So here are two choruses but I really don't get this tune.

Maybe what I need to get REALLY angry at the tune, then play it as a kind of assault on it. Anger and hard-bop seem somehow to fit together.

[PickingMyEars]

I dunno, but for someone who thought they didn't "fit it" to this thread...

That was a pretty tasty solo. NICE feel. Some phrases sat in the back of the pocket, and some were more forward. Sounded organic.

And you made your short notes short and long notes long. Sounds corny, but just paying attention to note length can do wonders for your playing. Helped me sound better and more intentional than in years past

Great stuff, Lawson-stone. Stay around a little longer. We just lit the camp fire and the marshmallows are out:

(no, that's not my photo... but I wish it was )

[rpjazzguitar]

I really can't shake the idea that if I'm in this group I need to do the tune. But as you know, I'm not totally comfortable, to say the least, with this. So here are two choruses but I really don't get this tune.

Maybe what I need to get REALLY angry at the tune, then play it as a kind of assault on it. Anger and hard-bop seem somehow to fit together.

I don't feel like I get the harmony of this tune either.

But, that didn't stop you from playing some nice ideas over it.

[charlieparker]

I really can't shake the idea that if I'm in this group I need to do the tune. But as you know, I'm not totally comfortable, to say the least, with this. So here are two choruses but I really don't get this tune.

Maybe what I need to get REALLY angry at the tune, then play it as a kind of assault on it. Anger and hard-bop seem somehow to fit together.

Lawson, I wish I was on your level. I'm at the stage where just playing the head to these times is a struggle.

[mr. beaumont]

I really can't shake the idea that if I'm in this group I need to do the tune. But as you know, I'm not totally comfortable, to say the least, with this. So here are two choruses but I really don't get this tune.

Maybe what I need to get REALLY angry at the tune, then play it as a kind of assault on it. Anger and hard-bop seem somehow to fit together.

Well you sure don't sound angry, just laid back and in pocket. I guarantee you this is even better than you think it sounds.

Great capper to Night Dreamer week.

Hope everyone is ready for this functional tune y'all think is easier

[lawson-stone]

I dunno, but for someone who thought they didn't "fit it" to this thread...

That was a pretty tasty solo. NICE feel. Some phrases sat in the back of the pocket, and some were more forward. Sounded organic.

And you made your short notes short and long notes long. Sounds corny, but just paying attention to note length can do wonders for your playing. Helped me sound better and more intentional than in years past

Great stuff, Lawson-stone. Stay around a little longer. We just lit the camp fire and the marshmallows are out:

(no, that's not my photo... but I wish it was )

Thank you for the kind words. Sometimes efforts we think are "throw-away" are actually not as bad as we feared... not as good as we'd hope either...

[lawson-stone]

I don't feel like I get the harmony of this tune either.

But, that didn't stop you from playing some nice ideas over it.

Well I did cheat a little... left out the dominants in the A section, just played over GM7 and EbM7. Tried to shoe-horn some bop licks in there, but I think some of the interesting stuff in the bass notes in the next section I just missed.

[lawson-stone]

Lawson, I wish I was on your level. I'm at the stage where just playing the head to these times is a struggle.

HA! I never learned the head to ND. I tried it, and tried it, and just didn't hear a melody there. Listened to the recordings, and just didn't enjoy the melody. Most tunes when I learn them I think "Yeah I"m glad I learned how to play that." But I'm at least glad I didn't give up.

[lawson-stone]

Well you sure don't sound angry, just laid back and in pocket. I guarantee you this is even better than you think it sounds.

Great capper to Night Dreamer week.

Hope everyone is ready for this functional tune y'all think is easier

Thanks for that reassurance. I think I"m so enamored with the great ones, I am more aware of how far short of them I come rather than just listening to what I"m playing.

Time to start whining about Nica's Dream now. I'm seeing the overall form of that one is really... involved?

[ragman1]

I don't feel like I get the harmony of this tune either

It hasn't really got a harmony, that's the point, it's just one sound block after the other. We're so used to looking for tonal centres and cohesion that this throws us. Just divide the bars up, play something over them, and away you go.

G - Gm - G - Gm
G - Gm - Bbm - %
F#m - % - Gm - %
G - Gm - G - Gm

Or if you like -

G - Gm x3
Bbm x2
F#m x2
Gm x2
G - Gm x2

See, easy. After that, shift positions, do some hip phrasing, you'll be unstoppable.

You'll never be thrown by a modal tune again :-)

Do it quick, it's Thursday!

[ragman1]

Lawson -

involved?

I've had a quick look at Nica's Dream. There's an intro, probably optional. Then the head, two sections. Then there's a little extra section before it all starts again. But nothing that complex.

It might get tricky if one wants to change from Latin to swing in the B section. But a lot of versions don't so that's probably optional too.

Standards PDF Viewer - Learn Jazz Standards - The Ultimate Jazz Resource

Slowly does it, probably.

[kris]