Things I learned from Barry Harris Study Group

[Petimar]

what pcjazz said, but there actually is an alternate dominant 2 phrase that ends on the 1 in the workshop book

Dont have the book with me but Im playing 2 b7 7 1

on major Ill add the 3 note after the "2" phrase to end on the off beat. More of a bop sound to my ear. 2 7 1 2 3

[rlrhett]

after doing this more, its better to do 4 (starting on 5th degree) to 3 phrase (minus the last note of the 3 phrase so you land on the 7th on beat 4) for rhythm changes since having the 7th is important.

I've been trying to work out an exercise like this too to run over RC and BH Blues, but can't seem to get the timing right. Can you throw up a quick vid? Sometimes that is worth a thousand words.

[joe2758]

[christianm77]

Nice!

[tamirgal]

Practicing 5-4-3-2 lines on rhythm bridge. Was late at night so give me a break

[rintincop]

Regarding the 5 4 3 2 Phrases

What are you using for the 4 Phrase when in minor?
My solution is play 5 4 2 4 -3
or
4 2 4 3 -3


Is that about the right Barry Harris way for when in minor?

[joe2758]

Regarding the 5 4 3 2 Phrases

What are you using for the 4 Phrase when in minor?
My solution is play 5 4 2 4 -3
or
4 2 4 3 -3


Is that about the right Barry Harris way for when in minor?

412-3

[rintincop]

Thanks, that’s better.

[joe2758]

today i did blues and rhythm changes in the manner of the video above, got it up to 150. My plan is now to just work them up to 150 through various positions for the next 2 weeks. I'm still doing chord scales. Remember the chord scale episode won't have its own month because every month is chord scale month.

[tamirgal]

2 choruses of Blues, trying to insert those "5-4-3-2" in:

First time using this acapella app, how cool is that!

[tamirgal]

Gonna practice the 6 diminished scale of chords this weekend. I'm currently only focusing on the major6 and minor6 scales, starting only with drop2 shapes.

Attaching couple of cheat sheets I've made to summarise the chord shapes and scales, it might be useful to someone...

Cheers.

[edh]

@tamirgal, Thanks for pdf files.

[rintincop]

As an exercise, if I want to play the "5432 combination phrase" on each and every chord in the following example, then what would be my "5" start note?

| Fmaj7 | F#dim7 | G-7 | G#dim 7 |

For Fmaj7 the obvious start note is C=5
Would F#dim7 start on 5=C ? (or would Harris treat it as D7 start on 5=A?)
Would G-7 start on 5=D ? (or would Harris treat it as C7 start on 5=G?)
Would G#dim7 start on 5=D ? (or would Harris treat it as E7 start on 5=B?)

[rintincop]

Does Mr. Harris sanction these?

C7 alt ( play C Db Eb E Gb Ab Bb scale which is coincidentally the same scale notes as the C# minor major scale)


C7b9 (play half-whole diminished scale: C Db Eb E F# G A Bb)


This is how I have managed for decades.

[don_oz]

As an exercise, if I want to play the "5432 combination phrase" on each and every chord in the following example, then what would be my "5" start note?

| Fmaj7 | F#dim7 | G-7 | G#dim 7 |

For Fmaj7 the obvious start note is C=5
Would F#dim7 start on 5=C ? (or would it be treated as D7 start on 5=A?)
Would G-7 start on 5=D?
Would G#dim7 start on 5=D ? (or would it be treated as E7 start on 5=B?)

Its primary uses are for major and dominant chords. You wouldn't be able to play 5432 combination on each of those because rhytmically it wouldn't fit. If you play 5432 altogether it's a two bar phrase.

[rintincop]

I can fit 5432 in by playing 1/16th notes. I am doing it as an exercise to see how it applies everywhere.

[rintincop]

As an exercise, if I want to play the "5432 combination phrase" on each and every chord in the following example, then what would be my "5" start note?

| Fmaj7 | F#dim7 | G-7 | G#dim 7 |

For Fmaj7 the obvious start note is C=5
Would F#dim7 start on 5=C ? (or would Harris treat it as D7 start on 5=A?)
Would G-7 start on 5=D (or would Harris treat it as C7 start on 5=G?)
Would G#dim7 start on 5=D ? (or would Harris treat it as E7 start on 5=B?)

I am going to conclude it works all of the above ways.

[christianm77]

Does Barry Harris sanction these?

C7 alt ( play C Db Eb E Gb Ab Bb scale which is coincidentally the same scale notes as the C# minor major scale)
( Over C7alt use Upper Structure Triad pair bVI and bV , thus the Ab triad and Gb triad over C7alt)

C7b9 (play half-whole diminished scale: C Db Eb E F# G A Bb)
(Over V7b9 use Upper Structure VI, thus the A Triad over C7b9)

This is how I have managed for decades.

Sanction? Dunno. They are options. They are not the default options, and they don’t get covered in the basic materials.

Barry did mention the melodic minor in the last workshop I was at so the concept is not totally alien to him.

In general I think he would use the tritone sub with the dominant scale to get a C altered sound - so F# mixolydian.

For C7b9 we are for instance running Eb7 (mix) scale into the third of C7b9 ...

[joe2758]

“the A major triad can be found on the Db minor 6th dim scale. this scale functions as the “altered scale” for C7. when used in this way, barry refers to the scale as the “tritone’s minor” a minor 6th dim scale built up from the 5th of a dominant 7ths tritone” from 2nd workshop book

[tamirgal]

“the A major triad can be found on the Db minor 6th dim scale. this scale functions as the “altered scale” for C7. when used in this way, barry refers to the scale as the “tritone’s minor” a minor 6th dim scale built up from the 5th of a dominant 7ths tritone” from 2nd workshop book

Right. The minor 6 diminished is in essence a melodic minor scale. In and the 2nd workshop DVD there’s example of barry using it half step above the dominant.

Also in transcriptions I can certainly hear him outline melodic minor in certain contexts.

[christianm77]

I get the feeling that ‘melodic minor’ as an idea is a bit basic. I think the concept is MINOR

The melodic minor is kind of just part of the minor key. When you play tritones minor you play minor lines that might included expressions of the m6 dim and also maybe the harmonic minor scale.

For instance if you run the 3 ending in Dminor you get the A triad pretty strong. On G7 or Db7 that gives you the most important melodic minor notes. V on minor I, substituted. (BTW a lot of Jordan’s triad choices focus on this sound.)

Transcribing the music of that era, it’s fair to say the idea of the minor key is fluid. Those players aren’t too hung up on the vertical aspect - they will swap between maj7, min7, 6, b6 organically.

It’s possible when Barry said melodic minor he may have been referring to the classical Mel min as well. He just played it ascending so I don’t know.

[joe2758]

what up. Let's move on. Through November we'll focus on episode 4 which corresponds to Barry's ABCs from the first workshop series with the addition of his chromatic scale. We also are continuing our extended study of episode 6; chord scales.

As for me, I won't be doing much different. I'll focus on dominant scales. Practicing the chromatic one should be fun since I've never done that one. a lot more to work on this month (although last month was plenty in my opinion)

[Petimar]

Cool. That chromatic scale is such a great way to play it.

[joe2758]

Cool. That chromatic scale is such a great way to play it.

I got a chance to start work on it. With slurs in the right places it can start to sound like a line. Once these get as automatic as the 5432 from last month I think I'll have a lot of fun mixing them around.

[joe2758]

random early month video to maybe get things going?