Things I learned from Barry Harris Study Group

**joe2758** · 09-30-2018, 09:11 AM

lol rhet the picking wasnt bad. 5432 for this month ill make the official post later with the video and shit

**tamirgal** · 09-30-2018, 03:37 PM

**joe2758** · 09-30-2018, 07:47 PM

i think originally there was going to be one more week, i could do another week, but let's move on. This month will be TILF BH Episode 3 which deals with the 5-4-3-2 idea. Also assigned is continuing work on the 4 scales of chords discussed in episode 6.

Sorry I never posted an improv or my scales I got murdered this weekend with work.

So my goals for this month: Keeping my goal tempo at 200, shed these in all 5 "shapes" in maj and dom (i think only one of them contains the 7th anyway). In the workbook it also shows these in melodic minor, which I may or may not practice. I'll be writing choruses of rhythm changes and blues making them as dense as possible with these devices, and I'll also continue to improvise sticking them where I can in the moment. Maybe I'll keep doing the outlines to warm up my fingers and ears.

for chord scales I'd like to get more comfortable with 100 bpm quarter notes

To the shed we go!

**joe2758** · 10-01-2018, 08:22 PM

today i did 5432 in the "C" shape in few keys to make sure I wasn't fixating on fret markings. There's two full registers for 5432 in this position. I practiced both registers from 100-150 bpm. first all picked, then with slurs into upbeats where logical in the position. did each phrase individually from the 5th and then together as the TILF BH guy does.

did Eb6 and Eb-6 dim scales from lowest to highest and back 100 bpm quarter notes

**don_oz** · 10-02-2018, 03:41 PM

**joe2758** · 10-02-2018, 04:13 PM

"i consider myself the best teacher; there's no comparison." he's not wrong

**Petimar** · 10-02-2018, 06:49 PM

Did 5 4 3 2 around the circle of fifths at 100 BPM, both dominant and major versions. Then played a bunch of tunes at a much slower than normal speed in a number of keys and tried to fit 5 4 3 2 in with my normal lines and major and dominant scales with extra notes. Also got in a few thirds, triads, chords lines as well. Lots of fun, but thinking WAY to much at this stage.

I thought I glimpsed a faint light at the very far end of the tunnel tho...

**joe2758** · 10-02-2018, 07:31 PM

i did "A" and "G" shape 5432 in both registers from 100 bpm to 150 bpm. Part of the challenge was I had to make sure i did 5, 4, 3, 2, with only 1 beat in between, then 5432 together without clams before I graduated up 10 bpm. Did picking only and with slurs. Just doing dominant for now. Once I get these more solid I'll take them around the cycle like Pete hopefully. These days i'm really into drilling that muscle memory.

did Eb 7b5 dim scale in drop 3 from lowest to highest and back 100 bpm quarter notes. Took a bit to work up to that

**rlrhett** · 10-03-2018, 01:34 AM

OK, here is my before:

**joe2758** · 10-03-2018, 07:08 AM

looks like a good practice plan, rhett

**joe2758** · 10-03-2018, 08:01 PM

I did the final two shapes 5432 from 100-150. After that I decided I'll slow it down and get comfortable moving these around, so I set it at 100 bpm and went around the cycle. Once I get that more easily I'll start speeding up from there. 200 was too high of a speed goal, so new one is going to be around the cycle at 150 now. I'm only practicing with slurs now to save time, because that's how I'd play it in real life.

did Eb 6 dim in drop to from lowest to highest and back 100 bpm quarter notes.

anyone else doing chords? Make sure you do so you're good to go for the comping stuff later

**joe2758** · 10-10-2018, 07:40 PM

well it has been a few days since i've been able to practice. Today I went through all the 5432 at 150, then I started playing blues using almost 100% 5432 (mixing up in all different orders) very slowly. It showed me that I need to shed ALL the 5432, not just the areas where I can run the whole thing together. for example, in "D" position (CAGED) you can play 432 in upper register and I had been ignoring it since 5 was out of position. i like learning things in positions first obviously.

Trying to keep this thread going so people can join back in, but we'll see what happens. It's a slow pace.

**Petimar** · 10-11-2018, 11:32 PM

I have a real tendency to play 5 4 3 2 instead of just one of them. Working on getting more fluid with them individually and using them on different beats and getting to each from many different of my own phrases. Right now I sound like I'm playing exercises instead of music

**rintincop** · 10-13-2018, 02:09 PM

Why are the " 5, 4, 3, 2 Phrases " respectively name "5", "4", "3", and "2" ? What does each number designate?

(they're "handy get out of trouble" phrases, use them to end and begin lines, also works for Dominant and minor cases)

**matt.guitarteacher** · 10-13-2018, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by rintincop

Why are the " 5, 4, 3, 2 Phrases " respectively name "5", "4", "3", and "2" ? What does each number designate?

(they're "handy get out of trouble" phrases, use them to end and begin lines, also works for Dominant and minor cases)

I think it's implied that the number designates where the line begins. So you could play a descending scale from any degree (1, or 7, or 6 etc), and then, when you get down to the 5 descending, you can play the 5 line. Or you can keep going down play the 4 etc.

Five begins with 5. Four begins with 54 Three begins with 543 and two begins with 5432. But notice that until you get to number in question, it's still just a descending scale.

**pcjazz** · 10-13-2018, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

I think it's implied that the number designates where the line begins. So you could play a descending scale from any degree (1, or 7, or 6 etc), and then, when you get down to the 5 descending, you can play the 5 line. Or you can keep going down play the 4 etc.

Five begins with 5. Four begins with 54 Three begins with 543 and two begins with 5432. But notice that until you get to number in question, it's still just a descending scale.

Here's a slightly different take: They are named from the note that you leap from: the 5 phrase leaps down from 5 to 7; the 4 phrase leaps 4-2, the 3 phrase 3 to 5, the 2 phrase 2 to 7. Any of them can start on 5.

**joe2758** · 10-13-2018, 02:46 PM

I think the 4 3 and 2 don’t start on the 5, it’s just a good way to practice them. the 2 and 4 start on up beats, 3 and 5 start on down beats. by starting on downbeat 5 each time each phrase is oriented correctly

**pcjazz** · 10-13-2018, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

I think the 4 3 and 2 don’t start on the 5, it’s just a good way to practice them. the 2 and 4 start on up beats, 3 and 5 start on down beats. by starting on downbeat 5 each time each phrase is oriented correctly

Agreed. Another good way to practice them is to run up a chord into the phrase. So, for example, run up the 6 chord, top note is 5, play the 5 phrase from there. (Approach the chord from a half-step below.)

**joe2758** · 10-13-2018, 03:51 PM

they’re in my fingers now, so i started doing this with blues and rhythm changes:

1 bar phrase: 5-4
2 bar phrase: 5-4-3-2

you land on beat 4 just like doing scale outlines.

only difference between major and dominant is one note in the “3” phrase.

for the turnaround to ii phrase in the blues i take the triplet out of the 2 phrase and land on the 3rd of the VI7 on beat 4 (not nearly as complicated as it sounds haha)

**rintincop** · 10-13-2018, 04:05 PM

Thanks, good answers.

I see an inconstancy with the "2" Phrase. All of the others lead to the next step down after they leap and embellish... but the "2" ends up back at 2... shouldn't it be making a move to 1 ? All the others move to the next scale tone down...

**pcjazz** · 10-13-2018, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by rintincop

I see an inconstancy with the "2" Phrase. All of the others lead to the next step down after they leap and embellish... but the "2" ends up back at 2... shouldn't it be making a move to 1 ? All the others move to the next scale tone down...

Ending a phrase on 1 is saying "we're all done."

**joe2758** · 10-13-2018, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

they’re in my fingers now, so i started doing this with blues and rhythm changes:

1 bar phrase: 5-4
2 bar phrase: 5-4-3-2

you land on beat 4 just like doing scale outlines.

only difference between major and dominant is one note in the “3” phrase.

for the turnaround to ii phrase in the blues i take the triplet out of the 2 phrase and land on the 3rd of the VI7 on beat 4 (not nearly as complicated as it sounds haha)

after doing this more, its better to do 4 (starting on 5th degree) to 3 phrase (minus the last note of the 3 phrase so you land on the 7th on beat 4) for rhythm changes since having the 7th is important.

**christianm77** · 10-13-2018, 07:12 PM

The 3 phrase in minor is my jam, baby.

**joe2758** · 10-13-2018, 08:20 PM

i haven’t messed with the minor til now (except a couple years ago when i started) but man i just tried 532 (i forget the 4 phrase, it’s in the first work book) on the tritone’s minor and it sounds disgusting

**joe2758** · 10-13-2018, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by rintincop

Thanks, good answers.

I see an inconstancy with the "2" Phrase. All of the others lead to the next step down after they leap and embellish... but the "2" ends up back at 2... shouldn't it be making a move to 1 ? All the others move to the next scale tone down...

what pcjazz said, but there actually is an alternate dominant 2 phrase that ends on the 1 in the workshop book