Inexpensive Solid Body 7 String?

[rsclosson]

Well, the Jackson 7 string performs way above its price point. (BTW, it’s on sale right now for $169, so I really made out!). https://www.guitarcenter.com/Jackson...tring&index=14

My only criticism is that the neck pickup is pretty high in the mid range. This is probably because it’s voiced for metal and really would sound great on full distortion. I’m guessing that with a decent EQ, I can tame the mid range down.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Well, the Jackson 7 string performs way above its price point.

I think it may just be that the cost of such quality and performance has come down in absolute dollars. Value in inexpensive guitars has been steadily increasing for years. The quality of instruments made in places we shunned not so long ago because they made cheap junk has improved tremendously with the advent of better design, better production facilities, and CNC equipment.

Manufacturers seem to have recognized the huge market for good, affordable guitars, so the cost of a decent, giggable axe has plummeted while the cost of most other instruments has skyrocketed. They must make their margins on volume, since there can’t be that much profit in a guitar that has to travel around the world to get to you, goes through at least one middle man, and sells for $200 or less retail.

So I suspect we’ll see even more guitars under $500 in the hands of pros. They’re that good.

[Lionelsax]

Yes, they are good for the price but the tuners are not very good.
This is mine, the guitar cannot stay in tune because when I tune it everything is moving, the tuners don't work properly.
The sound is not so bad, for 148 euros, it's good.
I will change the tuners as soon as possible, I like the concept of a 7 string guitar.
This is the last experimentation.
I wanted at first the Jackson but the neck was narrower.

[rsclosson]

So far, mine holds its tune perfectly

[Lionelsax]

Now it stays in tune, I put some valve oil on the tailpiece, so the strings can easily slide between the head tuners and the tailpiece.
If someone who lives in Europe wants to try the seven string guitar, the Harley Benton is the right instrument.
You just have to touch a little bit the truss rod in order to put thicker strings. For the low A you need a 0.080 inch string.
It works well.
The microphones are good, they don't catch radio stations.
If you've got big hands, it will be a bit difficult, despite that the 7 string is not a difficult instrument.
I've played it for 5 days and I haven't got a lot of problems.
I improved since this video.
I'm just a bit scared to forget how to play the 5 string bass and the 6 string guitar.

A last word, don't be afraid of this low A, the low B is not so interesting.
That sounds like a lonely one guitar, with the low A it can sound like two instruments.
Playing single bass lines is not the easiest thing because of that perfect fifth but it will come step by step.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

. For the low A you need a 0.080 inch string.

That’s the ideal way to go, although many 7s have good intonation with a 0.072” or 0.076” 7th string depending on scale length, how well they’re made, how precisely and lightly you press, and your choice of string. But I’d be amazed if any factory built 7 carried a 7th tuner and nut slot bigger than 0.065” - every inexpensive one I’ve seen is set up for a 7th smaller than 0.060”. Even my Forshage/Raines Tele 7 came with a 0.070” - I added a Tusq nut that I cut for a 0.076”.

If you don’t open the nut slot for a bigger string, the string will sit too high above the board and the end of the nut will crack off sooner or later somewhere between the center of the slot (where it’s thinnest at the bottom) and the outside wall. Also check the bridge saddle, which may well be too small and need a touch of work.

I’m also amazed that your tuning head has a hole big enough for an 0.080” string. You can’t safely drill out most standard tuners much beyond 0.070 because you leave the walls too thin and the top of the post will bend or break off. I buy custom Sperzels made with bigger shafts and 0.085” holes. The only 7 I’ve ever owned that came with a bigger 7th tuner is my Ibanez AF207, and they don’t sell those tuners as replacement parts.

Lastly, it can be hard to find heavier strings with guitar sized ball ends. I’ve never seen a set of 7s that goes beyond 0.065”, and singles bigger than that are scarce. You can get John Pearse nickel wound guitar strings in any size you could ever want from Breezy Ridge (which is in the US, here in Pennsylvania). Years ago, before I discovered these, I used an 0.080” bass string and the bigger ball end sat on the outside end of the through-the-body ferrule on my solid bodies. I assume that’s what you’re doing.

[Lionelsax]

That’s the ideal way to go, although many 7s have good intonation with a 0.072” or 0.076” 7th string depending on scale length, how well they’re made, how precisely and lightly you press, and your choice of string. But I’d be amazed if any factory built 7 carried a 7th tuner and nut slot bigger than 0.065” - every inexpensive one I’ve seen is set up for a 7th smaller than 0.060”. Even my Forshage/Raines Tele 7 came with a 0.070” - I added a Tusq nut that I cut for a 0.076”.

If you don’t open the nut slot for a bigger string, the string will sit too high above the board and the end of the nut will crack off sooner or later somewhere between the center of the slot (where it’s thinnest at the bottom) and the outside wall. Also check the bridge saddle, which may well be too small and need a touch of work.

I’m also amazed that your tuning head has a hole big enough for an 0.080” string. You can’t safely drill out most standard tuners much beyond 0.070 because you leave the walls too thin and the top of the post will bend or break off. I buy custom Sperzels made with bigger shafts and 0.085” holes. The only 7 I’ve ever owned that came with a bigger 7th tuner is my Ibanez AF207, and they don’t sell those tuners as replacement parts.

Lastly, it can be hard to find heavier strings with guitar sized ball ends. I’ve never seen a set of 7s that goes beyond 0.065”, and singles bigger than that are scarce. You can get John Pearse nickel wound guitar strings in any size you could ever want from Breezy Ridge (which is in the US, here in Pennsylvania). Years ago, before I discovered these, I used an 0.080” bass string and the bigger ball end sat on the outside end of the through-the-body ferrule on my solid bodies. I assume that’s what you’re doing.

25 1/2 scale length... Like Fender.
Everything works for me without modify the tailpiece... no... you say the nut, sorry, I changed nothing.
Well, if I modified the nut, I would get fret noises everywhere, if I put a thinner string, it would never be in tune.
For 148 euros it is not so bad, I'm bad but the guitar is acceptable or more.

When I put the string like a moron (the way I could) I hadn't seen this video, when I change it I will do this.
Never underrate djent players...

Sperzels are expensive, you dropped your money through your window.
So you have tuning heads you didn't really need.

Yes for the string, I put a bass string.

Thomann has got everything or quite.
Daddario NW080 Single String – Thomann France
https://www.thomann.de/fr/ghs_boomer...string_080.htm
They are the biggest they have.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Well, if I modified the nut, I would get fret noises everywhere...When I put the string like a moron (the way I could) I hadn't seen this video, when I change it I will do this.
Never underrate djent players...

Sperzels are expensive, you dropped your money through your window.
So you have tuning heads you didn't really need.

No, no no - don't cut and remove part of the winding! The rest of it will slowly loosen and cause buzzing at the nut as soon as the loose winding reaches it. Then you'll have problems with intonation and playability over time. TI even instructs users not to use their strings if the cut length will be too short to keep the silk wrapped portion at the end in the peg hole, because they feel that the wrap over the winding is necessary to keep it tight. Here's just one JGO thread on the subject. On one of my archtops the length is too short to do that, so I gently but firmly put two tight bends in the portion sticking out of the tuner before cutting off the excess string. Removing part of the winding and leaving the cut end of it loose between the nut and the peg is a very, very bad idea.

Why do you think you'd have problems with fret noise if you properly slot the nut for the 7th string? If the stock nut is properly slotted for a 54, an 80 will not go into the slot at all and will sit on top of it until the nut breaks. If it holds an 80 at the right distance above the fingerboard, the 54 for which it was set up is undoubtedly too close and the guitar was never set up properly with nut, saddle and truss rod adjustments in balance for the desired action. So if that's the case, you need a taller nut that's properly slotted to cradle half the thickness of the string at the right height. Leaving the 0.080" string perched on the corners of the slot will almost certainly break off bits of the nut, and if the string is only contacting the nut at the top edges of the slot you're not getting the full tone from the string.

A black custom Sperzel with a large shaft and an 0.085" hole costs $13 USD plus shipping. I need a gold one for my Eastman 810CE7, and they're about $20 now. I don't consider this expensive at all, especially since there's no other safe and secure way to fit an 80. How in the world did you get an 80 into a stock peg on a $150 guitar without drilling it? I can't even imagine that the stock peg has a hole big enough to pass a 65.

[Lionelsax]

No, no no - don't cut and remove part of the winding! The rest of it will slowly loosen and cause buzzing at the nut as soon as the loose winding reaches it. Then you'll have problems with intonation and playability over time. TI even instructs users not to use their strings if the cut length will be too short to keep the silk wrapped portion at the end in the peg hole, because they feel that the wrap over the winding is necessary to keep it tight. Here's just one JGO thread on the subject. On one of my archtops the length is too short to do that, so I gently but firmly put two tight bends in the portion sticking out of the tuner before cutting off the excess string. Removing part of the winding and leaving the cut end of it loose between the nut and the peg is a very, very bad idea.

Well if the wound part is around the head tuner, there won't be any problem but what you described is probably true.
Well, I made this video just for you, tell me if the 7th string is really out of tune, apart at the end, I'm bending a bit. This neck is really really thin and the more I get age, bigger my fingers become !!!
Fortunately, a saxophone is never in tune, so it makes a nice balance.

[Jimmy Mack]

Sounds like a lot of good advice given here. One thing I would caution you about though: I bought a DanElectro solid body 7 string once, it played real nice and had many good points - except for one. It came equipped with "lipstick" p/ups. Probably the same ones used on all their other (6string) Dano models. One string, the 7th, had very little output. The string spread was just too wide for their standard lipsticks. I reversed the p/ups but had no improvement. I had a famous p/up maker try to come up with a custom made p/up. Small improvement.

So make sure that your p/ups can handle the string spacing encountered with 7 strings

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

So make sure that your p/ups can handle the string spacing encountered with 7 strings

Not to worry - it's amazing how many true 7 string pickups there are out there now. Most of the cheap 7 strings use Antec HBC-117 humbuckers, which appear to be what's on that Harley Benton. From the overhang past the pickup ends on their 6s (I carried a Danelectro Convertible as a backup in my trunk for many years), Danelectro did use their 6 string lipstick pickup on the Mod 7, figuring it'd be adequate. The cost of tooling up a 7 string lipstick was probably just too much for them to bear, given the market.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I made this video just for you, tell me if the 7th string is really out of tune, apart at the end, I'm bending a bit. This neck is really really thin and the more I get age, bigger my fingers become !!!
Fortunately, a saxophone is never in tune, so it makes a nice balance.

You're off to a nice start. Use your video to identify opportunities for improvement. If you watch the string itself as you fret a note on the 7th, you'll see that you're pushing it toward the edge of the board almost every time. This takes it sharp a few cents, and it's audible even with the 80. It's hard to see clearly in the video, but your 7th string may be barely between the edges of the slot, sitting on top of the nut and shifting a bit as you displace the string when fretting. If so, this affects tuning stability, as does having too many wraps of the string around the post (which you definitely do). The heavier the string, the fewer wraps you want - for an 80, 2 complete wraps is plenty. With more, the string is resting on string rather than post - the wraps are not holding the string down or firmly, so it can shift both inward and upward enough to detune. Upward movement also reduces its angle over the nut (which can cause extraneous string noises like buzzing and ghost tones) - each string should be wrapped progressively downward, so it leaves the post from the lowest wrap.



Since you're into experimenting with this guitar, you might consider adding a Roland synthesizer. When you combine a 7 with a synth, you have an unlimited palette of sounds and styles with which to work. To pique your interest, here's a synth version of Autumn Leaves I made years ago with the then-current version of the Roland synthesizer. With the XV2020, you could assign each string to a different voice or range. The GR20 I use now won't let me do that, and I don't know if it's possible with the latest versions. But they all have a pedal to let you sustain or mute the synth voice while playing the guitar, so you can use it live or in the studio. It's also great with a good looper, since you can lay down multiple parts and make a decent band yourself. Many of the voices are excellent, e.g. the sax is decent, the vibes are killer, the Harmon mute is pretty close to Miles, and the upright bass is very realistic through a bass amp or good audio system.

Unfortunately, there was no 7 string pickup when I set up my guitars, so I made a mount that lets me shift the GK pickup under the top 6 (E-E) or the bottom 6 (B-A). There's now a Ghost pickup system with 7 transducers that I plan to put in my Tele7. I'd use a GK3 on yours (under the top 6), because it's cheaper and it's completely and easily removable. You can shift it from guitar to guitar with very little effort. But before you try a synth, you have to work on your fretting accuracy, since the synth pickup is very sensitive to pitch.

PS: I used to play trumpet and sax on blues gigs, playing through a vocal harmonizer to make "horn sections". I did many a gig playing trumpet with my right hand and keys with my left (yes, I was playing in different keys at the same time - it's exhausting!) When I got the synths, I never played a horn again - so I sold them. It's hard enough to keep pushing your boundaries and improving your skills on one instrument. Trying to keep my chops up on the horns too was pretty much impossible beyond being able to play low register fills and stabs.

[Lionelsax]

You're off to a nice start. Use your video to identify opportunities for improvement. If you watch the string itself as you fret a note on the 7th, you'll see that you're pushing it toward the edge of the board almost every time. This takes it sharp a few cents, and it's audible even with the 80. It's hard to see clearly in the video, but your 7th string may be barely between the edges of the slot, sitting on top of the nut and shifting a bit as you displace the string when fretting. If so, this affects tuning stability, as does having too many wraps of the string around the post (which you definitely do). The heavier the string, the fewer wraps you want - for an 80, 2 complete wraps is plenty. With more, the string is resting on string rather than post - the wraps are not holding the string down or firmly, so it can shift both inward and upward enough to detune. Upward movement also reduces its angle over the nut (which can cause extraneous string noises like buzzing and ghost tones) - each string should be wrapped progressively downward, so it leaves the post from the lowest wrap.



Since you're into experimenting with this guitar, you might consider adding a Roland synthesizer. When you combine a 7 with a synth, you have an unlimited palette of sounds and styles with which to work. To pique your interest, here's a synth version of Autumn Leaves I made years ago with the then-current version of the Roland synthesizer. With the XV2020, you could assign each string to a different voice or range. The GR20 I use now won't let me do that, and I don't know if it's possible with the latest versions. But they all have a pedal to let you sustain or mute the synth voice while playing the guitar, so you can use it live or in the studio. It's also great with a good looper, since you can lay down multiple parts and make a decent band yourself. Many of the voices are excellent, e.g. the sax is decent, the vibes are killer, the Harmon mute is pretty close to Miles, and the upright bass is very realistic through a bass amp or good audio system.

Unfortunately, there was no 7 string pickup when I set up my guitars, so I made a mount that lets me shift the GK pickup under the top 6 (E-E) or the bottom 6 (B-A). There's now a Ghost pickup system with 7 transducers that I plan to put in my Tele7. I'd use a GK3 on yours (under the top 6), because it's cheaper and it's completely and easily removable. You can shift it from guitar to guitar with very little effort. But before you try a synth, you have to work on your fretting accuracy, since the synth pickup is very sensitive to pitch.

PS: I used to play trumpet and sax on blues gigs, playing through a vocal harmonizer to make "horn sections". I did many a gig playing trumpet with my right hand and keys with my left (yes, I was playing in different keys at the same time - it's exhausting!) When I got the synths, I never played a horn again - so I sold them. It's hard enough to keep pushing your boundaries and improving your skills on one instrument. Trying to keep my chops up on the horns too was pretty much impossible beyond being able to play low register fills and stabs.

Thanks very much for your post, you might be right about the string but it had been so difficult and weird to put on the head tuner that I don't want to touch it anymore.
I have not a lot of big noise, all my instruments make extra noise.
Yes it's a bit out of tune but believe me it was worst with a thinner string.
So you are a multi-instrumentalist.
That's great !
Thanks again, I didn't notice you reacted.
I liked your videos but seriously, it was good at the beginning and then the sax became more than strange.
The truth is that I am bit conservative, guitar synth, why not ?

In fact I have been interested in 7 string guitar since I saw this guy on YouTube ten years ago.
Unfortunately he died a couple of years after this video.

I liked the sound and and wanted one.

And then Ron Jackson came.

Yes, I'm a bit out of tune but not so much.
It has its charm but I can improve.

Thanks again !