Warmest, fattest, thickest sounding Humbuckers out there......

[DMgolf66]

Hey Folks,

Was looking for a replacement pickup to try that had the qualities I listed in the title. Just warm, warm, warm. Not bright. Thick and fat, lol.

Anyway, it would be for my Epiphone Emperor F which contains the Maxon 75 Humbuckers.

Thanks for any help and you're welcome for yet another humbucker thread!

[Stringswinger]

The warmest Humbuckers that I have tried are Kent Armstrong's PAFs.

[DMgolf66]

The warmest Humbuckers that I have tried are Kent Armstrong's PAFs.

SS,

How would you compare them '57 Classics? I imagine you've had a guitar or 2 with those in your vast experience.

[DawgBone]

The 57's are pretty warm, thick, and fat, especially at the neck. So is the 490r.

[Stringswinger]

SS,

How would you compare them '57 Classics? I imagine you've had a guitar or 2 with those in your vast experience.

I am a fan of 57 Classics and 490Rs. I think the KA pafs handmade by Kent are warmer.

[Pierrot]

I swapped my 57 classic for a Benedetto B6. Much warmer, woodier sound.

[Stringswinger]

I swapped my 57 classic for a Benedetto A6. Much warmer, woodier sound.

I have tried a Benedetto A6. I found the pickup to be warmer than a 57 classic but also thinner and with a pretty fast decay.

The handmade KA PAF is the warmest and fattest pickup that I have tried, but I think while very well suited for jazz, they are kind of a one trick pony (as is the Benedetto). If I was going to do rock, blues or Country, I would probably go with a 57 Classic or 490 R or Duncan 59 (which are a bit brighter than the Gibsons, but still do jazz very well.)

[marcwhy]

Humbucker sized P-90, of course!

[Cunamara]

Huh, my experience with the floating version of the Armstrong handmade PAF is not a warm, fat pickup but is clear and bright. N=1, of course. On my guitar with my hands and my amp.

[Stringswinger]

Huh, my experience with the floating version of the Armstrong handmade PAF is not a warm, fat pickup but is clear and bright. N=1, of course. On my guitar with my hands and my amp.

I have never had any floating pickup deliver a warm and fat sound.

[bluejaybill]

I have never had any floating pickup deliver a warm and fat sound.

…but the warmest and fattest that I have found with my Campellone is the Armstrong, which is identical to the built-in construction wise. It still has more clarity, maybe “air”, than a built-in though for sure.

This is after trying several others, JS types mostly, on that guitar, and it’s easier to balance strings too, no small thing.

Regarding the post about high output, or at least high resistance, the Armstrong that he custom makes for Borys is like that, and ceramic to boot, and sounds quite warm if you roll back the treble a touch, which is probably the secret to getting a warm sound anyway.

The best I have heard are original PAF’s, which somehow manage to be bright and fat at the same time. Again, slight volume or tone rolloff and you are where many of the old heroes lived. Many repro makers are scooped sounding for that “tele on steroids” thing, not quite the same. IMHO. YMMV etc.

[Cunamara]

I have never had any floating pickup deliver a warm and fat sound.

On that guitar, a Benedetto style 17" made by the late Matt Cushman, I went through a bunch of pickups, as at that time I was convinced that the Jim Hall tone was the ne plus ultra for jazz (it's just not my natural sound, as it turns out). It came with an Allparts pickup (now marketed as the "Razor Jazzubakka")- too bright, too cutting. I switched to the Armstrong PAF-0, which was also too bright unless the tone knob was rolled all the way off and even then it did not fatten up. Then I modified a Classic 57 to be a floater, but that was physically too thick to get a good balance. Then- after one of Fred Archtop's videos- I ordered a Biltoft neck-mounted CC style, which was great- clear and fat but too noisy for a guy living in a 100 year old house with questionable wiring. But I used it for several years. Finally I installed a Biltoft floating PAF which can be clear and bright but also can be warm and fat, responding well to the tone knob. It is my favorite pickup by far on that instrument and I very much expect that it will not be replaced. It puts me sort of in the Peter Bernstein tonal space. If Biltoft/Vintage Vibe Guitars was still in business I would recommend him in a heartbeat to the OP.

FWIW the Biltoft PAF is about 8k DC, but that number is really not a useful measure of guitar pickup performance since pickups function as AC signal generators. Inductance is a more useful measurement and I don't remember the Henries rating for it. It has an Alnico 2 magnet as did the Biltoft CC and perhaps the Classic 57. I have developed a preference for Alnico 2 magnets in pickups.

[Stringswinger]

…but the warmest and fattest that I have found with my Campellone is the Armstrong, which is identical to the built-in construction wise. It still has more clarity, maybe “air”, than a built-in though for sure.

This is after trying several others, JS types mostly, on that guitar, and it’s easier to balance strings too, no small thing.

Regarding the post about high output, or at least high resistance, the Armstrong that he custom makes for Borys is like that, and ceramic to boot, and sounds quite warm if you roll back the treble a touch, which is probably the secret to getting a warm sound anyway.

The best I have heard are original PAF’s, which somehow manage to be bright and fat at the same time. Again, slight volume or tone rolloff and you are where many of the old heroes lived. Many repro makers are scooped sounding for that “tele on steroids” thing, not quite the same. IMHO. YMMV etc.

I have an Armstrong floater on one of my guitars and it is warm, but fat? I just don't think any floater is as fat as a full size, built in variation.

[Strat-itis]

To make any jazz humbucker more warm, fat, and thick you can simply use a double thick magnet. You can go even crazier than that and put flanking magnets too. The only downside is it won't take a stock cover after that.

I'm putting together a Seymour Duncan 59 with a double thick A2 in the middle and lil double thick A5 spacer magnets on the side for sale here. It's gonna be fat.

[GuyBoden]

I think the built in HB is warmer.

Why?

I don't know, but this is my experience.

Edit: Experimenting with EQ is always a good option.

[lawson-stone]

I have had great experiences with the Classic 57 and the Seymour Duncan Seth Lover. The Seth's might have been a little more articulate than the C57. On my Epiphone Broadway I actually installed the StewMac PAF and was really pleased with it. The stock Epiphone pickup on my older (but still modern era) Broadway was quite blah. Somewhere around here I have an ancient Benedetto B6 from the Kent Armstrong era and it is a very fine pickup too. Literally immersed in potting material, it is immune to almost any microphonic, but no adjustable pole pieces.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Somewhere around here I have an ancient Benedetto B6 from the Kent Armstrong era and it is a very fine pickup too. Literally immersed in potting material, it is immune to almost any microphonic, but no adjustable pole pieces.

I have a B7 (same as a B6 but for 7 strings) on my Ibanez archtop, and it's wonderfully fat, smooth, and jazzy. IIRC, Bob Benedetto once said in an interview that the B was the best jazz pickup he ever heard. It is encapsulated in a thick layer of epoxy. But much of that is between the workings and the strings to ensure a reasonable gap between them. This enriches the tone while heping the output level down a bit. The B is "high output" if you go only by its coil resistance.

String balance is fine on my guitar, so I don't miss adjustable poles at all. I love the B and recommend it highly. It's also great for a smooth overdriven blues tone.

[lawson-stone]

I have a B7 (same as a B6 but for 7 strings) on my Ibanez archtop, and it's wonderfully fat, smooth, and jazzy. IIRC, Bob Benedetto once said in an interview that the B was the best jazz pickup he ever heard. It is encapsulated in a thick layer of epoxy. But much of that is between the workings and the strings to ensure a reasonable gap between them. This enriches the tone while heping the output level down a bit. The B is "high output" if you go only by its coil resistance.

String balance is fine on my guitar, so I don't miss adjustable poles at all. I love the B and recommend it highly. It's also great for a smooth overdriven blues tone.

That's a great description. For some reason I couldn't remember the word "epoxy" when I wrote that post. I originally got this pickup after buying a 1980's ES175 and was a little disappointed--this was back in the 1990's. So I bought that B6 and at the time paid $150 for it! Wired it up and mounted it, and yeah, it was the tone I was chasing at the time. I have gotten a little les eager to switch pickups, maybe because I have been able to get guitars already well equipped, but I have a body of an L5ces copy that I"ve stripped and I"m thinking about the B6 for that one.

[Stringswinger]

bUy aN oVeRw0uNd cHiNeeZ hUmBuKKeR


@lawson-stone IME the Seth's are def more articulate than the 57's but my experience was with semi hollows rather than big hollows so not sure how that holds up for the jazz box guys. I think Stringswinger has had both as well.

I have never had a guitar with a Duncan Seth Lover. I have had Duncan 59's, Duncan Pearly Gates and the Duncan made Guilds. I think my Benedetto pickups were all made by Duncan as well.

I have read that the Seth Lovers are on the bright side. I had one guitar with short magnet PAFs and without question, they were the best sounding pickups I ever owned. I would like to believe that the whole PAF thing is BS, but my experience says otherwise. I think bluejaybill has had a similar experience. The guitar that the PAF's went into (and out of) came to me with T-tops. I like T-tops, but they are a bit on the bright side (by design from what I have read), so I found some PAF's. That guitar sounded incredible with the real PAF's.. But I could never get it to play the way I wanted so when I decided to sell that guitar, I replaced the PAF's with 57 Classics and sold the PAF's on their own. The 57 Classics were a bit muddy compared to the real deal, but it still sounded great and the buyer of that guitar was pleased. I wonder if I had used KA handmade PAF's if I would have liked the tone as well as the real PAF's? I would like to think so as the real PAF's are crazy expensive today.

I had three of those real PAF's and in retrospect, I wish I would have kept them all.

[jim777]

I have had great experiences with the Classic 57 and the Seymour Duncan Seth Lover. The Seth's might have been a little more articulate than the C57. On my Epiphone Broadway I actually installed the StewMac PAF and was really pleased with it. The stock Epiphone pickup on my older (but still modern era) Broadway was quite blah. Somewhere around here I have an ancient Benedetto B6 from the Kent Armstrong era and it is a very fine pickup too. Literally immersed in potting material, it is immune to almost any microphonic, but no adjustable pole pieces.

I'm admittedly the worst there is at describing pickup characteristics, but I do like those StewMac Parson St. humbuckers. They are very definitely in the 'old PAF' space. I wouldn't call them warm or fat though, because of my inability to judge those qualities as separate from whatever amp I'm using. And yeah, that guy is rude

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I think my Benedetto pickups were all made by Duncan as well.

Yes they were. SD has ben making Benedetto pickups for several years. Unfortunately, they provide little or no support for them. The wiring diagram that came in the box showed 5 wires, but the pickup only had 3. I called SD's customer service line and was told that my pickup had 5 wires. I replied that it was in my hand and only had 3 - to which the guy who answered the phone responded that I must be mistaken about which pickup I have. In desperation, I called Benedetto. Jackson told me that they've had difficulty getting customer support from Duncan and were not happy about it. He told me how to wire the pickup and emailed me the correct diagram (which showed 3 wires).

I was really surprised, since I'd been using Duncans for many years and always got good service and info from them about their own products. Hot Rails were my favorite pickups for Teles, and I have a Quarter Pounder in my Kubicki Express. I still love my B and would use one again without hesitation if it was the right choice for a given guitar. But Kent Armstrong has been so good about communication and support that he's my default pickup source ever since I got my first KA about 6 years ago, just because he deserves our support for being so available and honest about what can and can't be done in a pickup. I have KA HW HBs in 3 guitars now and love their tone just as much as I do the B.

[Stringswinger]

Yes they were. SD has ben making Benedetto pickups for several years. Unfortunately, they provide little or no support for them. The wiring diagram that came in the box showed 5 wires, but the pickup only had 3. I called SD's customer service line and was told that my pickup had 5 wires. I replied that it was in my hand and only had 3 - to which the guy who answered the phone responded that I must be mistaken about which pickup I have. In desperation, I called Benedetto. Jackson told me that they've had difficulty getting customer support from Duncan and were not happy about it. He told me how to wire the pickup and emailed me the correct diagram (which showed 3 wires).

I was really surprised, since I'd been using Duncans for many years and always got good service and info from them about their own products. Hot Rails were my favorite pickups for Teles, and I have a Quarter Pounder in my Kubicki Express. I still love my B and would use one again without hesitation if it was the right choice for a given guitar. But Kent Armstrong has been so good about communication and support that he's my default pickup source ever since I got my first KA about 6 years ago, just because he deserves our support for being so available and honest about what can and can't be done in a pickup. I have KA HW HBs in 3 guitars now and love their tone just as much as I do the B.

You are correct. Duncan did make all of the Benedetto pickups that I have owned (4 in total, two floaters and two built ins). Kent Armstrong handmade the first Benedetto pickups, but by the mid 80's. Bob went with Seymour Duncan.

I have never had any contact with Kent, but I have heard excellent things about his customer service. I am sorry to hear about your problems with Duncan. I had them custom make a pickup for me and the experience I had dealing with them couldn't have been better. To be fair, at the time I was a friend of Rick Turner (RIP) and Rick and Seymour were good friends. Perhaps, my friendship with Rick got me some VIP treatment?

Here is a personal anecdote for the OP and all reading this:

Outside of my experience with real PAF's, Gibson Classic 57's have been my favorite Humbucking pickups for many years now. Until something happened to change that. I bought an L-5CES from a forum member. That seller was a fan of boutique, handmade instruments and he replaced the Classic 57's with handmade Kent Armstrong 12 pole PAF's. I asked him if he had the original pickups (57 classics) and he told me that he traded them for the installation work of the KA pups. That saddened me as I thought that I would have to buy some new 57 Classics. Lo and behold, when the guitar arrived, the original pups were in the case pocket. I contacted the seller to inquire about this, and he told me that he was feeling guilty about separating the guitar from its original pickups, so he bought them back from his guitar tech and included it in the sale at no cost to me. (Thank you, Eric, for doing that if you are reading this!). It was my intention to have the original pickups reinstalled, but I decided to use the KA pups for a while to check them out and over 5 years later, the KA pups are still on that guitar. That is the best endorsement of Kent's work that I can think of.

[John A.]

I'm admittedly the worst there is at describing pickup characteristics, but I do like those StewMac Parson St. humbuckers. They are very definitely in the 'old PAF' space. I wouldn't call them warm or fat though, because of my inability to judge those qualities as separate from whatever amp I'm using. And yeah, that guy is rude

Ditto on all counts. FWIW, I replaced a set of Kent Armstrong "Six Shooters" (the MIK pickup that's in tons of Asian guitars, Alnico V, ~8k neck, ~9k bridge) with the Parson Streets (Alnico II, ~7k neck, ~8k bridge.). I'd say there is some difference between the two in warmth (which I think of as mid-range emphasis) - to my ears there's more mid-range with the Parsons Streets. But to me the bigger difference is that the KA's have a spikier attack and a sense of there being a resonant peak higher up in the frequency range. My sense (from internet wisdom) is that this is typical of differences in A5 vs A2 magnets and and higher vs lower DC resistance.

I'd add that you also have to factor in the guitar -- a pickup might seem "warmer" in one guitar than in another because of differences in how guitars and pickups complement each other. To a degree I think you can sort of shop on the basis of spec (e.g., knowing that you want one combination of magnet type and wire/resistance vs another, frequency response plots, etc), but ultimately it's trial and error, and words like "warm" are not all that helpful.

[Mick-7]

I've been meaning to replace the pickups in this old Michael Kelly Custom (pictured) for years now, the pickups on it are the only thing they skimped on. Any reason that the pickups recommended in this thread would be inappropriate? Thanks.

[jazzgtrl4]

The warmest Humbuckers that I have tried are Kent Armstrong's PAFs.

This, i recently bought a Westville Solar single pickup with a Kent Armstrong USA Alnico III in it...Yes Warm, Fat, woody

Now the KA Alnico 5 in my Victor Baker is a different animal.