Why can’t we live in peace?

[Stevebol]

Tell ChatGPT to stfu with framing the response as a refutation when it just expanded on exactly what I said.

You busted me. Damn.

[Strat-itis]

[James W]

I cannot argue with that. But I do think that Capitalism and Christianity are better for the greater good, particularly when both have to function under some limitations on their power, then are Islam and Communism/Socialism.

Nah, capitalism poses an existential threat to humans as a species, irrespective of any limitations on its power. It cannot deal with the climate crisis, a crisis it is responsible for. The profit motive will see the end of humanity. Capitalism is predicated on endless growth too, so it's peculiar to see you defend it when earlier you expressed concern about overpopulation.

[Stringswinger]

Nah, capitalism poses an existential threat to humans as a species, irrespective of any limitations on its power. It cannot deal with the climate crisis, a crisis it is responsible for. The profit motive will see the end of humanity. Capitalism is predicated on endless growth too, so it's peculiar to see you defend it when earlier you expressed concern about overpopulation.

Climate change will solve the overpopulation problem.

[Stringswinger]

You busted me. Damn.

Who knew your AI friend is a leftist? Maybe we do need to fear AI after all.

[DawgBone]

I assume this view of taking pride in something comes from your faith? I can't fathom why someone would live a life they're not proud of, but I don't follow Christian theology nor do I stress over getting into "heaven". It sounds like a way to cast aspersions on people who don't buy into what their selling. "Johnny does good things, too bad he can't go to heaven because...blah blah blah". Johnny probably doesn't worry about it though

Why would someone live a life they aren't proud of? They recognize a poor decision(s) that negatively affected themselves or someone else and are introspective enough to realize it and to deeply regret. Dismas, the penitent thief on the cross. It's not meant to be about casting aspersions onto other people considering "With the measure you judge others, you will be judged".

Who goes to court and says "I was speeding, caused a wreck, and injured another party but let me tell you about my other good deeds your honor, that I might be exonerated"? The judge doesn't care about your good deeds, he judges your criminal behavior, which in the case of Christ, is your sin. A thousand good deeds do not offset one criminal act in a human court, or in the heavenly one.

Luke 18 10-14

10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

[James W]

Capitalism works better because it accounts for the selfishness, greed, and acquisitiveness that dwell naturally in men's hearts. It's easier for most people to own 10 guitars to themselves than to give 10 guitars away to those with none. God loves a cheerful giver, not one who is forced to give reluctantly or under compulsion.

I wonder if you could find any Bible verses that support these comments? Capitalism is only a few hundred years old so why are we encouraged to believe it is somehow the natural state of affairs? As for your guitars analogy: clearly you do not grasp the obscene wealth inequality that exists in society - the existence of billionaires. I am not concerned about someone with ten guitars not giving them away, but rather someone with billions, a complete hoarder of guitars. A true parasite and drain on society.

If we all found a way to be more Christ like then I think society would by nature have a more "communistic" flair but it would not be because the state demanded it of us but rather because we demanded it of ourselves, if that makes sense.

I'm glad to hear you acknowledge this (though I might point out that there have been socialist revolutions that do in fact have the popular backing of the population. And while I don't like the undemocratic form that these countries take, it's not helped by some very hostile and powerful states who generally practice some sort of pretence of democracy).

[James W]

Climate change will solve the overpopulation problem.

It won't, but it's true that many people will and are dying as a consequence of climate change, these people overwhelmingly are from countries who are not responsible for the majority of the emissions that cause global warming. This and the neverending war machine will just create more and more refugees too.

[DawgBone]

I wonder if you could find any Bible verses that support these comments? Capitalism is only a few hundred years old so why are we encouraged to believe it is somehow the natural state of affairs? As for your guitars analogy: clearly you do not grasp the obscene wealth inequality that exists in society - the existence of billionaires. I am not concerned about someone with ten guitars not giving them away, but rather someone with billions, a complete hoarder of guitars. A true parasite and drain on society.





I'm glad to hear you acknowledge this (though I might point out that there have been socialist revolutions that do in fact have the popular backing of the population. And while I don't like the undemocratic form that these countries take, it's not helped by some very hostile and powerful states who generally practice some sort of pretence of democracy).

Sure: 2 Corinthians 9-7 "Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

I do not vote and so really I just want the system which requisitions the least from my pocket, and interferes the least with my life. I would prefer to help who I see fit, not who the system sees fit. Beyond that it's not of great concern to me. They are all human, fallible systems. All nations rise, and then fall, so no system has shown itself to be ideal.

Socialism would work better if everyone was a cheerful giver, but many are not. To you ten guitars is not hoarding. To me it is because owning two guitars is enough for one gigging instrument plus a backup in case my guitar is lost, stolen, or damaged. I don't judge anyone with 10 guitars, or a 100, or a 1000...it's not my business, but I do see it as very excessive for someone like myself. I can't stand to have more than four or five at a time just because of maintenance like setups and string changes. Others are happy to do it or just let them sit long stretches in a case. I'm a utilitarian by nature. I only really want what I need and like traveling light and living fairly simply. Heck I still use a clothesline to dry my stuff anytime the sun is shining just to save on the electric bill and cause sun dried clothes are great, lol...

[Strat-itis]

Who knew your AI friend is a leftist? Maybe we do need to fear AI after all.

All the bots I've used feel more lefty. While ChatGPT is definitely the most woke of them all haha. Grok is the only righty I've tried. Have a chat with him!

[Tal_175]

I’m not quite sure what you mean by natural sixth? Could you be more specific?

This is what co-pilot claims:
In Bach’s minor-mode writing, the raised 6th (nat6) almost always appears in the predominant region — specifically in ii°6 or iv-derived predominant sonorities — before the music moves to the dominant. This is consistent with standard Bach-style voice-leading practice, where nat6 is used to smooth an ascending melodic line and to prepare the dominant without creating the augmented 2nd.

Which is interesting to me because in jazz, the natural 6th is associated with the tonic region of minor, Dorian or melodic minor (should I capitalize these damn scale names or not, lol).

[Kirk Garrett]

Capitalism works better because it accounts for the selfishness, greed, and acquisitiveness that dwell naturally in men's hearts. It's easier for most people to own 10 guitars to themselves than to give 10 guitars away to those with none. God loves a cheerful giver, not one who is forced to give reluctantly or under compulsion. If we all found a way to be more Christ like then I think society would by nature have a more "communistic" flair but it would not be because the state demanded it of us but rather because we demanded it of ourselves, if that makes sense.

The parable of the talents sounds pretty capitalistic to me.

[James W]

And the Lord proclaimed, maketh profit off the backs of thy fellow man.

[Kirk Garrett]

And the Lord proclaimed, maketh profit off the backs of thy fellow man.

What Bible did you get that from?

[Stringswinger]

It won't, but it's true that many people will and are dying as a consequence of climate change, these people overwhelmingly are from countries who are not responsible for the majority of the emissions that cause global warming. This and the neverending war machine will just create more and more refugees too.

The truth is that we don't actually know how many people will die from Climate change. Nor do we know if we can stop it entirely with green technology, carbon taxes etc. The religion of Climate Change assumes many facts not in evidence. And if the people who do die from climate related causes are from backward, undeveloped nations, that is natural selection at work.

As for the military-industrial complex, they too are assisting in nature's fight against overpopulation. I am something of a deep ecologist, so the end of the age of man seems OK by me. Just so long as it doesn't happen anytime soon.

[Stevebol]

The truth is that we don't actually know how many people will die from Climate change. Nor do we know if we can stop it entirely with green technology, carbon taxes etc. The religion of Climate Change assumes many facts not in evidence. And if the people who do die from climate related causes are from backward, undeveloped nations, that is natural selection at work.

As for the military-industrial complex, they too are assisting in nature's fight against overpopulation. I am something of a deep ecologist, so the end of the age of man seems OK by me. Just so long as it doesn't happen anytime soon.

We're having a pretty bad drought. Colorado needs more snow. You got 78% on average last year. They got 48%. Not good. 70% of AZ water goes to alfalfa.

[James W]

The truth is that we don't actually know how many people will die from Climate change. Nor do we know if we can stop it entirely with green technology, carbon taxes etc. The religion of Climate Change assumes many facts not in evidence. And if the people who do die from climate related causes are from backward, undeveloped nations, that is natural selection at work.

As for the military-industrial complex, they too are assisting in nature's fight against overpopulation. I am something of a deep ecologist, so the end of the age of man seems OK by me. Just so long as it doesn't happen anytime soon.

There's no religion of climate change, it's the scientific consensus.

Most of the backwards, undeveloped countries are as they are because of centuries of pillaging, theft, genocide and colonisation from European nations. There are more compelling and plausible reasons for why we Europeans did this than 'natural selection', reasons which I have read about but can't reel off off the top of my head, so I will get back to you on that one.

I'm interested in the concern you show for overpopulation, and the fact that it apparently is used by you to casually dismiss the mass death of people you appear to think are dispensible, whether it's from war or climate change. I wonder if you extend this logic to the Nazis' attempt to wipe out the Jews among other groups of people? Was that all good for preventing overpopulation? Genuine question.

[Stringswinger]

All the bots I've used feel more lefty. While ChatGPT is definitely the most woke of them all haha. Grok is the only righty I've tried. Have a chat with him!

I was amused to read the bots take on my ideas. And largely it was spot on, even the part about me viewing the world through a conservative lens. I am a straight White male, a longtime Republican, a Life member of the National Rifle Association and a Zionist. There is no question that I view the world through a mostly conservative lens. But at the same time, I am pro-choice, pro-Gay marriage and pro-environment. Which makes me part of a dying breed, a moderate Republican. The bot missed that. And I knew that the bot leaned left when it brough up the Nordic Countries in rebuttal to what I had written. That is a lefty talking point. And one that is easily answered.

The Nordic Countries are all Capitalist nations (Sorry Bernie Bros, they are not socialist) with a strong tradition of underlying Protestant Christianity (which IMO, is the best of the organized religions, though I remain unconvinced). They are also pretty uniform racially and culturally, particularly compared to America. What works well for them may not work well for America, but I do see the merit in some of their ideas, particularly in regard to health care. While they may not be very church going today, their Protestant work ethic remains. They are however, having problems with unassimilated immigrants these days.

The bot also mentioned Japan, a very uniform people (talk about excluding outsiders!) who are deeply influenced by the Shinto and Buddhist faith of their fathers.

@Stevebol: Bring on another bot. I'm ready.

[DawgBone]

There's no religion of climate change, it's the scientific consensus.

Most of the backwards, undeveloped countries are as they are because of centuries of pillaging, theft, genocide and colonisation from European nations. There are more compelling and plausible reasons for why we Europeans did this than 'natural selection', reasons which I have read about but can't reel off off the top of my head, so I will get back to you on that one.

I don't think "most" is all that accurate. And besides many of those "backwards" places have people that live with much smaller carbon footprints than those of us in the west. While I don't believe in climate change, for someone who does, it seems like it would make sense to encourage people to go without electricity, large homes, air conditioning, a dozen pair of shoes, ten guitars, three car households, foods imported from thousands of miles away, and many other first world comforts in an attempt to salvage planet earth. "Climate change" claims are just about control in my view and the evidence is the proposed solution; more taxes.

[ruger9]

I don't think "most" is all that accurate. And besides many of those "backwards" places have people that live with much smaller carbon footprints than those of us in the west. While I don't believe in climate change, for someone who does, it seems like it would make sense to encourage people to go without electricity, large homes, air conditioning, a dozen pair of shoes, ten guitars, three car households, foods imported from thousands of miles away, and many other first world comforts in an attempt to salvage planet earth. "Climate change" claims are just about control in my view and the evidence is the proposed solution; more taxes.

That's the tell. "Taxing our way out of" climate change. What a laugh. Does that mean we can tax our way out of the next pandemic? Gee I hope so.

[Stringswinger]

There's no religion of climate change, it's the scientific consensus.

Most of the backwards, undeveloped countries are as they are because of centuries of pillaging, theft, genocide and colonisation from European nations. There are more compelling and plausible reasons for why we Europeans did this than 'natural selection', reasons which I have read about but can't reel off off the top of my head, so I will get back to you on that one.

I'm interested in the concern you show for overpopulation, and the fact that it apparently is used by you to casually dismiss the mass death of people you appear to think are dispensible, whether it's from war or climate change. I wonder if you extend this logic to the Nazis' attempt to wipe out the Jews among other groups of people? Was that all good for preventing overpopulation? Genuine question.

I am never good with actual genocides. What has been done to the Amerindians, the Armenians, the Assyrians (people forget about them) and the Jews of Europe is unjust and simply wrong by every metric. But in my view the holocaust happened for a variety of reasons. One is that the Jews were a threat to the Nazis intellectually (The Germans were wiping out the competition, not a bunch of "subhumans"), two is that the Jews were weak, unarmed and unable to defend themselves (which is no longer the case today, perhaps there is some natural selection in that), three is that due to historic religious and economic reasons, the hatred of the Jews was widespread throughout Europe (and still is). Of course, killing six million people does help with overpopulation, but I cannot equate industrialized mass killing of innocents with natural disasters that may or may not be caused by the actions of mankind. I suspect however, that in your mind, it is all the same thing.

James, I will say that you are very consistent in your viewpoints. We disagree on most things, (while agreeing on a few things). I would defend to the death, your right to express your views. I do wonder if you and folks like you held power, if you would do the same for folks like me? The history of actual socialist nations (Soviet Union, PRC, Cuba, etc.) indicates that you would not.

[DawgBone]

That's the tell. "Taxing our way out of" climate change. What a laugh. Does that mean we can tax our way out of the next pandemic? Gee I hope so.

It's also strange to me that the people selling climate change by funding climate research are mostly the billionaire class that are otherwise detested by those on the left (and many on the right as well).

[Christian Miller]

This is what co-pilot claims:
In Bach’s minor-mode writing, the raised 6th (nat6) almost always appears in the predominant region — specifically in ii°6 or iv-derived predominant sonorities — before the music moves to the dominant. This is consistent with standard Bach-style voice-leading practice, where nat6 is used to smooth an ascending melodic line and to prepare the dominant without creating the augmented 2nd.

Which is interesting to me because in jazz, the natural 6th is associated with the tonic region of minor, Dorian or melodic minor (should I capitalize these damn scale names or not, lol).

OK, I'd like to answer this question, but could you start another thread on the topic?

[Tal_175]

OK, I'd like to answer this question, but could you start another thread on the topic?

OK, I just posted a new thread on the subject.

[pauln]

Politzania

[The Politzanian National Anthem]

Politzania, brave strong and true
Politzania, we all love you
We'll smite our foes for we are right
And God is on our side

Politzania, red, white and green
Politzania, reigning supreme
Victors in war
Champions of peace
Unto eternity

Everybody now
La la la la la la la la la la la la...

From Klaatu's second album (1977)