Why can’t we live in peace?

[DawgBone]

OK, that's more precise. It sounded like before you were saying "I don't ever worry or have fear because I have God", and that's simply not the way it works, nor how He intended it to work, IMO. There's no such thing as life without suffering (of which worry and fear are 2 forms).

"Choosing not to worry about a daughter with cancer" is ludicrous, of course. Faith can HELP with the worry and fear, but it does not remove it; that's not humanly possible (and again, it was never meant to be.)

I guess I see it a little differently. My old man has had cancer the past two years and told me about a week ago he's done doing chemo, getting his PSA levels checked, etc etc. He's decided to let the cards fall as they may. I don't spend my day worrying about it i.e I don't have worry or fear about him dying. I don't wanna lose my pop. I dread the day I get the call, but sitting around worrying about that day doesn't do any good for him or me. I pray for his health, because that is the most effective thing I can do.

As for ragman, replacing a negative action, worry, with prayer (in this case for someone besides myself) has little or nothing to do with the self other than the physical benefit of eliminating worry and replacing it with a positive action. I suppose many a non-believer would just assume I'm wasting time that could be utilized for something else within the realm of physical-material action. Prayer for the sick and for the dead are among the chief spiritual works of mercy and are something done out of love for others, rather than the benefit of the self. So I would say in our hypothetical, your statement is misguided though I'm happy to hear your rebuttal.

[ragman1]

As for ragman, replacing a negative action, worry, with prayer (in this case for someone besides myself) has little or nothing to do with the self other than the physical benefit of eliminating worry and replacing it with a positive action. I suppose many a non-believer would just assume I'm wasting time that could be utilized for something else within the realm of physical-material action. Prayer for the sick and for the dead are among the chief spiritual works of mercy and are something done out of love for others, rather than the benefit of the self. So I would say in our hypothetical, your statement is misguided though I'm happy to hear your rebuttal.

I have no rebuttal, Dawg, I was just stating a fact.

See, if someone is frightened of losing something or somebody and tries to replace it, why are they bothering at all? They wouldn't want to replace it if there was no fear so fear is behind it. And can fear be replaced with something else or only escaped from?

[DawgBone]

I have no rebuttal, Dawg, I was just stating a fact.

See, if someone is frightened of losing something or somebody and tries to replace it, why are they bothering at all? They wouldn't want to replace it if there was no fear so fear is behind it. And can fear be replaced with something else or only escaped from?

Well, we are deviating from the conversation slightly from worry into fear but ok....

People often talk about conquering fears so just because fear is behind something, it doesn't mean it has to dominate our thoughts or dictate the actions we take so bothering with it doesn't seem irrational or illogical to me to replace it with something else. Stage fright for example. Is fear behind it? Of course. But if we are trying to become professional, then replacing it with something else becomes a necessity if we are to master stagecraft. I think that it can be escaped from, and replaced as well. I don't see utilizing tools to do so as selfish or pointless.

I'm not sure if I addressed your statement properly.

[ragman1]

replacing it with something else becomes a necessity if we are to master stagecraft. I think that it can be escaped from, and replaced as well.

Of course fear can be escaped from, we do it all the time in a multitude of ways, but escaping from it ultimately only makes it worse. The things we escape into become our problem.

If we're to replace it (which is a very strange idea anyway!) who is going to do the replacing? The person who is frightened? He will act according to his fear no matter what he does.

[ruger9]

I hate to tell you but any action of peace cannot involve self. Worry, fear, faith, belief, trying to replace worry with faith and belief, are all actions of fear. Therefore none of it has anything to do with peace because it has nothing to do with love.

I should stay out of this

Faith has nothing to do with love? Meaning people only have faith out of fear? If so, you clearly have a very narrow understanding of faith.

[DawgBone]

Of course fear can be escaped from, we do it all the time in a multitude of ways, but escaping from it ultimately only makes it worse. The things we escape into become our problem.

If we're to replace it (which is a very strange idea anyway!) who is going to do the replacing? The person who is frightened? He will act according to his fear no matter what he does.

The bible is a strange book. Christianity is a difficult religion. Happy 4th ragman!


1 John 4:18

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love

[ragman1]

Faith has nothing to do with love? Meaning people only have faith out of fear? If so, you clearly have a very narrow understanding of faith.

Faith in what? Something of the mind?

You don't have faith in something real and tangible like food or water, your faith is of something intangible that you assert exists. But you don't know what it is. If you say you DO know what it is then it's not intangible any more, is it?

So, again, faith in what?

[ragman1]

He that feareth is not made perfect in love

Your Bible agrees with me. There can't be fear and love both. You can't replace fear with love because love is only possible where there's no fear. You have some some control over fear but none over love.

[mr. beaumont]

[emanresu]

thats a stupid vid but yeah.:

Neglecting our history results in confusion here and now.

Why can’t we live in peace? - bah. that is that easy - our history in our cells.

edit: before someone whines... by "our history" i meant our real history. our real physical history.

[ruger9]

Faith in what? Something of the mind?

You don't have faith in something real and tangible like food or water, your faith is of something intangible that you assert exists. But you don't know what it is. If you say you DO know what it is then it's not intangible any more, is it?

So, again, faith in what?

I don't think you addressed my point: [do you believe] is faith only because of fear?

[ragman1]

I don't think you addressed my point: [do you believe] is faith only because of fear?

I'm not ducking the question. I asked you: faith in what? Answer that and I can answer your question. But I suspect the answer would then be self-evident.

[DawgBone]

I'm not ducking the question. I asked you: faith in what? Answer that and I can answer your question. But I suspect the answer would then be self-evident.

Hey you're on to something.

Psalms 9:10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

[ragman1]

Dawg, forgive me, I'm not one for books. Quoting a book isn't an answer to the complexities of life.

I hope you're having a good July 4th :-)

[DawgBone]

Dawg, forgive me, I'm not one for books. Quoting a book isn't an answer to the complexities of life.

I hope you're having a good July 4th :-)

Well I guess I'd disagree. There are many spiritual writings that can be of benefit to a person.

I'm having a good 4th and I hope you are as well. I kicked the tires and lit the fires at about 6:45 this morning and got a brisket on by about 8:30, which means I should be eating around 10pm this evening after the fireworks. It's coming along nicely.

[Stevebol]

Happy birthday to my country! The beautiful US of A and all our...fans.

[Stringswinger]

Happy birthday to my country! The beautiful US of A and all our...fans.

Cheers to that! We are still that shining City upon a hill.

[ruger9]

I'm not ducking the question. I asked you: faith in what? Answer that and I can answer your question. But I suspect the answer would then be self-evident.

Faith in anything.

Your turn.

[joe2758]

I have a question for Christians here.

Purely out of curiosity, no sort of trick question or trying to "stump" anyone. Full respect.

Why is it that faith in Him carries more weight in the deciding factor of destination after death than morality?

A non-Christian who conducts themselves in a near saintly way, either observing another religion or no religion at all. And perhaps a person who has legit faith in God, but cannot overcome behaving immorally in many ways.

For instance if a man worships a false idol, but as part of that develops near perfect moral character...what is the bad there, what is deserving of hell?

I ask because the answer can't be that God craves to be worshipped? It can't because he wants his due credit?

Thank you, this is a genuine question and not a challenge

[DawgBone]

I have a question for Christians here.

Purely out of curiosity, no sort of trick question or trying to "stump" anyone. Full respect.

Why is it that faith in Him carries more weight in the deciding factor of destination after death than morality?

A non-Christian who conducts themselves in a near saintly way, either observing another religion or no religion at all. And perhaps a person who has legit faith in God, but cannot overcome behaving immorally in many ways.

For instance if a man worships a false idol, but as part of that develops near perfect moral character...what is the bad there, what is deserving of hell?

I ask because the answer can't be that God craves to be worshipped? It can't because he wants his due credit?

Thank you, this is a genuine question and not a challenge

"I didn't come to call the righteous, but to call sinners to repentance." Luke 5:32

Near perfect moral character doesn't save you, because that's judging character by human standards, not God's. Moses, God's own chosen agent, was not allowed to enter the promised land because he struck the rock in anger in the wilderness of Zin. Near perfect moral character-one sin. (Numbers 20:12)

Even your good deeds are as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). Someone who thinks they have lived a morally excellent life is someone who suffers from the sin of false pride and the delusion of self righteousness.

[nyc chaz]

Pope Francis in a speech a few years back quoting from the Gospel of Mark said that atheist's can indeed go to heaven if they live a moral life.He knew a little bit about the Bible.

[joe2758]

Pope Francis in a speech a few years back quoting from the Gospel of Mark said that atheist's can indeed go to heaven if they live a moral life.He knew a little bit about the Bible.

That's amazing! I never thought a Christian would say that! (my father os a Pastor btw)

[rrbasic]

There are Catholics who are quite knowledgeable when it comes to the Bible, but Pope Francis wasn't one of them.

[emanresu]

I am not an atheist by choice, but because there are religions. If there weren't any religions, I wouldn't be an atheist.
Anyway.
The OP: simply because evolution hasn't caught up with humans fast enough. Although the best way to live is with peace and respect, those traits haven't become our default behavior at the genetic level.
For example, whenever something shitty happens—anything—our first, instinctive reaction is frustration and anger. This has nothing to do with morality; it's simply what has worked best in nature for billions of years.
Yet, in our modern world, anger and frustration are often among the least productive ways to solve a problem. Still, that's our first reaction. It's incredibly powerful, comes directly from our evolutionary past, is often poorly suited to modern life, and is deeply rooted in us.

[Stevebol]

Stevebol, perhaps you should contact Martin Scorsese about doing a biopic of your life.

Bands in California didn't want to play residencies in the far east anymore so someone offered me the last gig. That's about it. Glad I could help.