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11-18-2025 11:21 AM
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I didn't have 8 min to listen to the video, but there is a thriving jazz scene in New York City and the surrounding metro area.
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Jazz has been on a decline for a long while.In the 1930's,40's jazz was the music of the day.Look where jazz is today in streaming or digital downloads and it is at the bottom.Jazz will always be around just like there are musicians today who specialize in playing renaissance or baroque music.There are gigs especially in diverse urban communities but like Rich says in the video nowhere near what it was years ago.Making a living playing jazz is harder than ever and the pay on most local jazz gigs is the same or worst than it was 50 years ago.Most people in our TikTok world today don't have the attention span to appreciate jazz unfortunately.
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The more AI delivers Safe, the more people will crave Danger. And there's nothing more dangerous than playing Giant Steps at high speed!
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This is one of those doom-laden questions that keep coming up like a bad penny.
Jazz today is not what it was at its inception. It has completely changed into something more akin to rock or even pop. And it has definitely become a specific genre. That may change one day but it's now a niche affair with a limited amount of adherents.
But that doesn't mean that it's dying or deteriorating. Quite the contrary, it's alive and well and has its own circle, like trainspotting or birdwatching :-)
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I'm not a fan of podcasts about Jazz where the guitar is used as a prop, unplayed. Also don't like to see the prop sports announcer head gear with cheek mic; not like his voice needs special treatment. The only thing I heard useful was the idea of actually seeking out places and communicating with the venue management, but that was introduced as some kind of crazy effort beyond the norm.
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Jazz bands unable to succeed performing need to check a few things:
- You may be too loud; too loud is always heard in the range of "not musical" to "not even music".
- You may not be playing or sounding as good as you think; this may be more the case if your band is not a steady set of musicians but a "changeling" collection that shows up to just play and wing it.
- You may be choosing tunes that are fun to play but not so fun for the audience to hear, avoiding tunes you don't like that they might enjoy.
- You might be anxious discussing business. Business people love and live talking about money, with their banker, their suppliers, there employees... don't be afraid, it is their favorite thing.
- Are you susceptible to over promising? Do you know that the question, "How many of your following do you think you can bring in?" is a test question? They know you can't promise that. You are expected to know this, too.
- Does your band advertise its shows on a few dozen platforms? Does it advertise your schedule and advertise the venues (address, directions, pictures, descriptions)? Do you inform the venue of all this?
- Do you ask the venue put your name on their marque, sign, posters, flyers, etc.? Have you ever arraigned for the venue person in charge to take a moment to present the band (customary in the old days), preparing the audience for enjoyment, then turning it over to you as they lead off a round of welcome applause? Do you have any idea the profound effect that has on the whole evening from just that moment of authoritative introduction?
I could go on... success is an active involved process.
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Miles said it..He didnt like the label "jazz"..I agree.
Its music..very vibrant and alive with roots deep in the human pool of feeling..from basic drum beats..to the enslaved call and response..to the highly
educated and complex arrangements of big bands playing original compositions of musicians from all around the world.
Yes it changes..it MUST..it has to grow..as a child to adult and all the metaphors that dare to explain evolution of life.
While i loved playing the hell out of the changes on Here's That Rainy Day, Green Dolphin Street and many more
I immersed myself in modal flavors and later "fusion". And now exploring harmonic/melodic creations of my own using all the elements
I have digested.
I am glad jazz has changed and grown..and will continue to do so as long as their are musicians to play new and exciting and even revolutionary soundscapes.
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10 years ago or so I'd say jazz scene is alive and well and musicians can still make a living... Now I just don't know, how?
I was talking to my friend, a really good and established singer on NYC jazz scene, and i asked her, you play with some top cats in the city, do they make a living from music that allows them to live comfortably in NYC? Because in my estimation in order to do that you need to make around $80,000, can they? She said most of them live with roomates or do have another job.
Then we talked about an average gig pay, and damn, it's pretty much the same as here in Shanghai, $100 club gigs, and $400 for a function on average? Only the cost of living in China twice as less, so I just don't know anymore, NYC is thriving, but how do they live? If you're young it's ok, but if you in your 50's, 60's, do you still want to live with a roomate, and how can you afford to have a family?
Actually couple of guys I know who are gigging they have spouses with really good jobs, so I guess family could be a solution, just not the way you'd traditionally think haha.
Is Europe any different?
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As an audience member, I’d say the same is true for London and some other parts of the UK. I’d hazard a guess and say those places may well be university towns/cities(?). There’s a lot of jazz music I can go out and see, marketed as jazz, not wallpaper music for dining etc, fairly close to where I live. Pro musician forum members in the UK please correct me if my perception is wrong.
Originally Posted by MarkL
Last edited by Bill C; 11-18-2025 at 02:50 PM.
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There was also a time when one could make something like a living writing short fiction. That was (according to someone who was there and did it) circa 1946-55. Audiences change their tastes and markets follow. As Yogi pointed out (and I may have used this before), "If the people don’t want to come out to the ballpark, nobody’s going to stop them."
There's still an audience for jazz, however defined, but it (like short fiction) is no longer something large numbers of people choose to spend their time and money on. Folk and chamber music (both of which have small, volunteer-run societies in my small city) are no better off and survive on arts-board support. The local jazz guys don't even have that--they are compensated by the tip jar and whatever small honorarium the host bar provides. A real job it ain't. But in all those cases, there's a genuine audience for the music, just not one as big as for the (very good) tribute bands. (And those guys all have day jobs, too.)
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If the underlying premise here is that we should be really worried that jazz isn't universally adored and followed by the the masses then I'd say that was entirely the wrong point of view.
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I am having a really hard time finding work as a coachman
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The AI chatbot suggested that the decline is due to a large degree in people not dressing the part. In fact, until I inquired, I did not even realize we have a dress code, you don't hear about it on YouTube.
What is the dress code for jazz music?
Smart Casual for a Laid-Back Jazz Bar
For a more relaxed jazz bar, a smart casual outfit strikes the right balance. Men: A fitted blazer or sweater with dark jeans or chinos. Loafers or polished boots add a sophisticated touch. Women: A stylish blouse with jeans or a midi skirt, paired with ankle boots or flats.
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I agree. I think it’s going well. Venues close down, but new ones open up. Originally Posted by Bill C
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It balances. The problem with jazz is that it takes insane amount of dedication.
Well, 100%.
That 100% is deceptive because the sanity, reason, calculation clearly shows that jazz is not what would bring the cash in.
So, less and less people go for that 100% just because they need something solid to make cashmoney for living.
IMHO, that's the reason for the decline. Not that it is "hurting" in some other way. I bet it is the opposite. When something has aged, it will shine again, and again.
Picked up, getting trendy again and again. Personally and socially.Last edited by emanresu; 11-18-2025 at 05:42 PM.
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I dunno seems like there’s more jazz players than ever before to me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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YT distorts a lot.
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I fed the question "what is jazz" into an AI bot for its 'reply'. Originally Posted by Mick-7
Here's what it came up with...including its own 'decision' to highlight the first sentence.
Jazz is a music genre that originated in the African-American community in the early 20th century, combining African and European musical traditions. It is defined by improvisation, syncopated rhythms, and the use of "blue notes," with a "swing" feel being common. Other characteristics include call-and-response patterns, complex harmonies, and a focus on individual instrumental expression.
My thought (since I'm not a bot) is that jazz has and continues to evolve with music and society. People's 'taste' likewise changes/evolves over time, so why not jazz? It is a form of human expression after all. It might not please those who require a more static form of jazz...rather than a more fluid continuum of this amazing musical genre. Even the blues has changed dramatically over the years. But that's a whole 'nuther' discussion... :-)
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Which also means there are more listeners since they are the same group. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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The love of jazz and the number of talented, dedicated jazz musicians is as high as ever. Maybe higher, because the internet makes access to music and information easier.
The number of places that will actually pay you to play is steadily declining. I was playing with a 20+ year NYC vet who said the number of gigs has dropped significantly since he's been here. He hosts a session where he pays the house band, but he only gets paid in tips, because the venue won't pay enough for the four of them. Pretty much everyone who gigs also teaches. Even getting the premium busking spots in the parks can be competitive.
I think it's a combination of a loss of dominance of jazz as the default live music/entertainment, and oversaturation with really talented musicians. You no longer have to have live musicians to have background music in your bar or restaurant. Even if a place wants them, they aren't necessarily playing jazz. But the jazz schools continue to crank out more and more well trained, talented musicians.
Idk if this all counts as "jazz dying". It's moreso that making a living just by playing is getting harder. Now you kind of have to have multiple income streams by necessity, not as a luxury.
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Thanks to the internet and social media, I'm at least aware of a lot more jazz happening than say, 20 years ago. There used to be only one jam in the area that I knew of, now I can think of 3 or 4, one just started in my little town in NJ. There's a couple of annual jazz festivals, too.
There's more happening in north Jersey- Shanghai Jazz is probably the only full-time jazz club in NJ.
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And that kids is what we call click-bait.
Every human creative endeavor, every hobby, everything that's got to do w culture has its doom-sayers and yet most continue to exist well and fine, some even thrive
Laufey is playing sold-out stadiums and her music inspires people of my generation to look up what jazz really is.
In my part of the world, there are quite a lot of posh speak-easies (yes, I am fully aware of the paradox) where on the busiest nights the bands play jazz music. These are young musicians, they don't often do old standards and oftentimes they start with fusion, but once the performers really get warmed up and start jamming and improvising, you really feel the energy and you see people appreciating and enjoying the music.
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That's my assesment as well. Tons of talent as ever, less work as ever. Originally Posted by BreckerFan
Possible ways to make it, obviously make a name and tour the world. But if you're just a local cat trying to survive, trust fund helps, day job, or spouse assistance, or living graciuosly while being half broke most of the time (which I did while in NYC). Of course teaching is pretty much a must.
Another thing, I had a conversation with a collegue, and he said what I've been thinking lately but I thought it's stupid... With all this AI bullshit goin on, people might get tired of fakeness and start craving for the real thing, which they can only get in live music situation.. Meaning the live music scene might come back in spectacular fashion, including jazz of course. Wouldn't that be cool, new venues, all packed, one can dream!
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Midi skirts have been known to have latency problems. How did they solve that? Originally Posted by Mick-7
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This has occurred to me - people seeking more 'IRL' experiences as AI kills the internet. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
(For myself, I've noticed that there's less and less online content that I want to engage with. I think this is more a second order aspect of AI - I just think people are making less effort in response to AI, and on the other hand almost everything seems to be focussed around a narrow range of topics on YouTube for instance. It's almost enough to get me to leave the house.)
OTOH no-one has any money to go out.
So it's a bit of column A, column B.
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