Is Jazz Really Disappearing? How the Scene is Dying? Guitar Discussion

[PMB]

A majority of people don’t listen to music. They just have it on.

"The English may not like music but they absolutely love the noise it makes" (Thomas Beecham).

[Christian Miller]

"The English may not like music but they absolutely love the noise it makes" (Thomas Beecham).

I agree with the first part, not sure about the second part


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[Tal_175]

Classical music is also dying if that's any consolation.

[James W]

Classical music is also dying if that's any consolation.

How far did you get into this video before switching it off? I managed to get to about 2:42 before switching it off.

Seriously dense stuff. Classical music is not dying... as Christian pointed out upthread, it is booming in East and South-East Asia. But of course, the person in the video is American so...

[nyc chaz]

A majority of people don’t listen to music. They just have it on.


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Hopefully that is not true if you are a musician and it doesn't change the fact that people don't choose to listen to jazz.The only way i know to learn jazz is to listen to it,so how can there be an abundance of new players if they are not listening to jazz music?

[pauln]

How far did you get into this video before switching it off? I managed to get to about 2:42 before switching it off.

Tried to hear her out but she does not understand or even like classical music. I got to 16:57 where she introduces the diagram of her idea to sneak classical music as a Trojan Horse conciliatory element into a primary attention boosting multimedia circus act.

[Christian Miller]

Hopefully that is not true if you are a musician and it doesn't change the fact that people don't choose to listen to jazz.The only way i know to learn jazz is to listen to it,so how can there be an abundance of new players if they are not listening to jazz music?

I think it’s hard to reach that conclusion from that data point as most people are not musicians.

I expect the fraction of musicians who listen to jazz to be rather higher, if still a minority.

Musicians are also not the only people who listen to music intently of course.

People who have got back into listening to music as a mindful thing (as opposed to ‘having it on’ are now going back into buying vinyl, which wouldn’t show up on those numbers either

But that’s small potatoes of course, compared to the total number of streams of the latest chart pop. So, yeah.

But I look at it a different way.

So first of all, streaming services are a waste of time for artists in niche music. You don’t earn revenue from it even in the unlikely case that people actually listen. I’m not alone in not putting my music on Spotify.

Secondly, Music lovers are also those people who are more likely to pay money for music, and support artists and that’s an important consideration.

But the more important point is it’s a big world. I mean even in the US - if only 1% of 300 million people listen to jazz, that’s 3 million people. And we are all connected now. You just have to reach a fraction of them and you can make a living.

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[luk_luk_guy]

But the more important point is it’s a big world. I mean even in the US - if only 1% of 300 million people listen to jazz, that’s 3 million people. And we are all connected now. You just have to reach a fraction of them and you can make a living.

And from these few sentences I shall harvest a supply of hopium to last for years

[Mick-7]

Classical music is also dying if that's any consolation.

Here's even greater consolation: civilization is dying.

[Alter]

Nyc has been a place where musicians go, stay for a few years, get what they can, and then leave. It's been like that for decades. Except for really famous players, or people born there you mostly see people 20-25 to 35 tops.

Just look at the top jazz players today. Most of them also teach, one way or another. Income from recorded music has been lost to Spotify, and AI is going to take away much of the session and writing jobs as well. Live music will remain, but not many people will be able to make a living from it. And this too is exploited by Live Nation/Ticketmaster today.

Listen to what Suno can produce today. How long until it can create a new Coltrane album that will be indistinguishable from the originals..

I think jazz is as popular as it has been since the 70s, but for a musician to reach a really high level they have to be at it 24/7, and do lots of live playing. These are difficult to do if you can't survive on it.

[Christian Miller]

Here's even greater consolation: civilization is dying.

But look on the bright side - the internet is dying (or already dead)


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[pauln]

Some have noted that when work is scare,
teaching others to be able to do that work
is a way to help make financial ends meet.

What's the balance between an increase in
the popularity and availability of that work
and producing more competition for work?

[joe2758]

But look on the bright side - the internet is dying (or already dead)


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Can you expand on this? Because this is truly bright side for me, and I haven't heard this opinion before. I have actually been pretty worried about how much the internet will consume my children.

[ragman1]

So what if it is dying? Everything dies eventually...

[Christian Miller]

Can you expand on this? Because this is truly bright side for me, and I haven't heard this opinion before. I have actually been pretty worried about how much the internet will consume my children.

Dead Internet theory - Wikipedia

In all honesty I’m finding there’s less and less online to grab my interest as low effort AI slop is slowly taking over. We are also mostly using just a handful of huge websites (the social media platforms really) that are increasingly alienating for this reason.

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[joe2758]

Thanks, I don't feel any better though. Now it seems like my kids will grow up on the internet but it will also be 100% ai slop

[wolflen]

[QUOTE=Christian Miller;1434817]But look on the bright side - the internet is dying (or already dead)


Ahh..A la Dylan..."..it looks like its dying and its hardly been born.."

[Gitfiddler]

Thanks, I don't feel any better though. Now it seems like my kids will grow up on the internet but it will also be 100% ai slop

AI will definitely be part of the future studio/recording music scene.

However, I seriously doubt AI will have much an impact on live performances.

[GuyBoden]

The internet (Web) is not dying, it is evolving.

I don't think the Internet (Web) was any better in 1990's when I first started using Mosaic (Netscape), but I do remember that all the information was freely available, but very, very, very, very slowly. (If you could find it.)

Today, like most things, a small minority of people are ruining things, trying to exploit it for their own gains.

This is only my personal Software Engineer's viewpoint.

[Rolf Field]

well, call it Jazz, ... Call it Pop, (Jazz)rock, Fusion, Worldmusic, Ambient etc. etc. Who cares?! You like it or not. There will be music!

[gvurrdon]

As an audience member, I’d say the same is true for London and some other parts of the UK. I’d hazard a guess and say those places may well be university towns/cities(?).

Oxfordshire appears to be well served for jazz.
There are various jams around (and not just in the centre of Oxford itself) plus venues where jazz is performed regularly. There are a steady supply of pro gigs as well, and the ones I've been to (as an audience member, of course) have been well attended.
Garden parties in college grounds often have a small jazz group playing standards and it is often undergraduates these days; a good opportunity for them and they no doubt cost less for the organisers. The days when I could enjoy a free Alyn Shipton gig by going to the Encaenia garden party appear to be gone.

[TF]

Jazz may be dying, or have died. But entertainment lives on.

For many people - possibly including my beloved spouse - the word "jazz" means music that's difficult to understand, played by deadly serious musicians who show all the joie de vivre of scientists in a lab.

[dconeill]

I dunno seems like there’s more jazz players than ever before to me.

Seems to me that number of live jazz audience members would be a better metric.

[alltunes]

Most NYC families (or couples) need two salaries to have a decent standard of living, and at least one of those salaries has to come with health insurance. That's not just musicians, that's true for everybody. $80k/year sounds like a decent income to people living in many other parts of the country, but in NYC it's really not. This situation has been true for pretty much my entire adult life (i.e., since the mid 1980s). To a degree, it used to be a bit less harsh because housing wasn't always quite this dire, but the difference between a "middle class" life and poverty for someone in the arts has pretty much always been a spouse (or an inheritance).

I live in the NYC suburbs. If a couple each makes 100k you are just scraping by. Effective tax rate between fed and nys would be around 25%…..add to that social security/medicare 7.65% on each 100k salary….so now we are down to 120k net….now pay 8.75% sales tax on many purchases. Own a house? Real estate taxes at least 12k probably much more….gas and electric through the roof…and yeah hopefully one of your jobs covers health insurance….I’m happy to get $100 a gig..almost pays for the hobby

[DawgBone]

I live in the NYC suburbs. If a couple each makes 100k you are just scraping by. Effective tax rate between fed and nys would be around 25%…..add to that social security/medicare 7.65% on each 100k salary….so now we are up to 120k net….now pay 8.75% sales tax on many purchases. Own a house? Real estate taxes at least 12k probably much more….gas and electric through the roof…and yeah hopefully one of your jobs covers health insurance….I’m happy to get $100 a gig..almost pays for the hobby

I've looked at rural property in upstate NY. Affordable, and beautiful, until I realized property taxes are the catch. Truly insane and I say that as someone living in Texas where I consider 3k/yr for a five+ acre spread to be insane. It's 3-4x that in NY state for the same sort of property I have here. What's crazy is if I lived inside city limits on a 1/4 acre lot here in central Texas my taxes would be substantially higher by about a thousand bucks. Rising taxes on acreage in rural FL has kept me from possibly returning. I'd have to settle with a lot in town. My old man always says "you got cheap living there". Cheap ain't what it used to be....