Something interesting about the chorus of 'It Could Happen To You' (sheet music)

[brent.h]

..

[Mick-7]

I wouldn't call it remarkable, the turnarounds are IIm7-V7. Both Eb7 & A7 function as V7 chords and people play either one.

Also, the C7 in bar 12 (B section) is functioning as V7 of VIm7 (Fm7), which is a synonym for I6 (Ab6).

[kris]

This is the key of A flat major.
Eb7 is dominant.
bar 8 B section is A7 - this is a substitute for Eb7
I have other more accurate chord changes for this tune... a different key of E flat major.

[Christian Miller]

Yeah it is interesting now you point it out. The IV-/II-7b5 is used instead which softens the sound of return to I somewhat.

I would probably put a V7 at the end of the first half. A7 is a sub for that.

I see it as a variant of what I call the ascending A section. You have melodic sequence that rises a step each time and in this case the bass is moving up as well.

Other tunes that do this include
My Foolish Heart
Memories of You
Ain’t Misbehaving (esp the NRB changes)
The Serpents Tooth
Do Re Mi

The chords that go along with these things vary but in general we end up making either a diatonic or secondary dominant V of each scale step. So for the first few bars:

C Dm Em F
And variously
C Am Dm Bm Em
Or
C A7 Dm B7 Em
Or
C C#o7 Dm D#o7 Em
Etc

The Em’s might also be swapped out for C/E

Depending on what the melody is up to

Some tunes go onto IV, in this case C7 F, or E7+5 F

This can also be used as a variant of Rhythm Changes

None if these progs feature a V

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[Christian Miller]

I’m looking at the iReal changes now and it’s totally different both to what I play on this tune and those songbook changes haha… I think this tune deserves a deep dive.

I should go back to the sheet music too.

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[Christian Miller]

This is the key of A flat major.
Eb7 is dominant.
bar 8 B section is A7 - this is a substitute for Eb7
I have other more accurate chord changes for this tune... a different key of E flat major.

NB: He’s citing the original sheet music, not the standard jazz changes/key which is why he wrote them all out for us.

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[kris]

[kris]

[Christian Miller]

Here, in case you missed the hyperlink in my first post:

https://www.sheetmusicsinger.com/wp-...o-You-1944.pdf

Brett I’m going to take a wild guess and say that you already know the standard jazz school changes for It Could Happen to You?


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[Christian Miller]

Yes. The 'school changes' are in Eb with all the typical ii-V motions, minor ii-V motions, etc.

The original has more augmented sounds.

The augmented chord is the special sauce of pre-bop harmony.

I think Peter Amos got told off once by Brad Shepik for playing the diminished chords and not the minor II V’s because it meant he learned it from the real book.

You’d could “well ackshually” him on that one haha. But I think the II V’s were played more by the boppers.


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[kris]

Version i C-maj...nice chord changes:

[kris]

The augmented chord is the special sauce of pre-bop harmony.

I think Peter Amos got told off once by Brad Shepik for playing the diminished chords and not the minor II V’s because it meant he learned it from the real book.

You’d could “well ackshually” him on that one haha. But I think the II V’s were played more by the boppers.


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Miles?

[Mick-7]

I think you have a couple of wrong chord changes there. I have found the leads sheet in this book to be accurate, the one for this tune is similar to yours but there are differences: The Hal Leonard Real Jazz Standards Fake Book

Maybe the version from the movie ("And the Angels Sing") is on YouTube.

[kris]

I think you have a couple of wrong chord changes there. I have found the leads sheet in this book to be accurate, the one for this tune is similar to yours but there are differences: The Hal Leonard Real Jazz Standards Fake Book

Maybe the version from the movie ("And the Angels Sing") is on YouTube.

To whom is this remark?

[Christian Miller]

Miles?

Yeah I dunno, just reporting what I heard.

I would have thought the Miles version is the template for jazz interpretations, and In the Miles version Paul Chambers is very obviously playing the ascending chromatic thing in the head and quite a bit for the solos. (Also he’s in two for the whole cut, which I think is super hip.)

Maybe that’s not a hip version or something? No idea what Brad was thinking, maybe Peter would have more context.


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[Mick-7]

To whom is this remark?

To brent, sorry, I would not count on a piano arrangement from a British publishing house to be a great source.

[Christian Miller]

Tbh I have had weird discussions about this tune with people. Most versions I hear the dim chords

I think this is the trendiest version atm and he’s playing II V’s once he goes into tempo.

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[Christian Miller]

To brent, sorry, I would not count on a piano arrangement from a British publishing house to be a great source.

Do you have a better source for the original sheet music and piano arrangement or are you going to post more lead sheets?

Edit: sorry don’t mean to be snippy. I think Brett is doing something I do which is to refer to the original sheet music before tracing the development of jazz versions. But I shouldn’t speak for him. It’s just a bit annoying when people miss the point.

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[Christian Miller]

Huh, why? As in, do non-American publishers tamper with American composers' notes?

This is the place where you say ‘hey here’s something I noticed about the original changes that I haven’t seen reflected in lead sheets’ and then people say ‘these changes are wrong, here’s a lead sheet.’

I have come to the realisation that most people just don’t read what you write before posting.

Tbf I posted before realising you were specifically referring to the song sheet. But at least I realised it haha :-)


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[GuyBoden]

Version i C-maj...nice chord changes:

Great, that's how I was shown how to play "It Could happen to you" many years ago, but in Eb. Recently, I had to re-learn the newer Real Book changes to be able to play with other "Mainly Younger" RB players.

[GuyBoden]

Yes, the unaltered 7th chords are a mystery to me in the newer versions.

[kris]

Do you have a better source for the original sheet music and piano arrangement or are you going to post more lead sheets?

Edit: sorry don’t mean to be snippy. I think Brett is doing something I do which is to refer to the original sheet music before tracing the development of jazz versions. But I shouldn’t speak for him. It’s just a bit annoying when people miss the point.

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Is this a jazz guitar forum or an archive of original compositional versions?
There are a lot of very good jazz versions – very good sounding and fun to improvise in them.
I played this tune in various arrangements-chord changes.
I liked them all.There is probably no need to look for jazz in the composer's historical editions.
I know that sometimes there are completely different chord changes. But that's the creativity of jazz music.
If someone likes to play from piano publishers, it's just their choice.

[kris]

Huh, why? As in, do non-American publishers tamper with American composers' notes? Not being sarcastic or caustic here, but is it really a thing?

Mick-7 has a lot of knowledge.
Please don't be nervous.

[kris]

Yes, the unaltered 7th chords are a mystery to me in the newer versions.

+1
nice!

[Christian Miller]

Yes, thanks!

I like to see/hear the originals to try to understand how these composers worked their way through a tune. When I listen to the midi file of the original in my DAW, I like to slow the down the bpm to a manageable speed, then look at the midi notes on the piano roll, and see how the voices move. I learnt a lot from doing this.

One lesson I've learnt for example is that there are really no such things as 'chords', only movement of voices. 'Chords' are a shorthand for describing the collective, 'total' harmony of voices at particular points of the bar, usually on beat 1 and beat 3.

I am not smarter or more creative than the composer, so I should humble myself so that I can learn what he/she has discovered and put in writing.

That's why I like checking out the originals.

Yeah 100%. Barry would have been with you ‘the great composers did not write II to V to I.’

A lot of the song sheets have such elegant writing even if it’s an old fashioned style that might sound corny to those used to the modern changes - not that that’s an issue if you play old fashioned music (which sometimes I do.)

Chord symbols are really lossy. A good jazz player can take them and make them into real harmony/counterpoint, but by themselves they are really limited, and even misleading.

I think I first realised that trying to make reductions of baroque accompaniments over 20 years ago. I think the realisation of how chord symbols don’t seem to fit pushed me eventually in the direction of learning figures and counterpoint. It’s therefore interesting to come back to the standards repertoire with that perspective and find that’s there’s way more common ground than I would have expected.

And then you have people like Bill Evans and Jobim.

Some people aren’t really into that sort of thing and see the song as simply a background or mould for improvisation and that’s fine. As I get older I get more and more tired of my own noise (no really! ;-) and start to find more and more inspiration in songs and other compositions.

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