Bebop Heads (#4) - Moose the Mooche

[charlieparker]

What are the chords for m. 7 Dm7-G7?

+1 to going to the next section. There is some cool stuff on the bridge, too.

[Mick-7]

Personally, I reckon Bird intended there to be an Ab there, I can hear it on the Storyville version which is just Bird playing. (I slowed it down and pitch-corrected it, as the recording was at the wrong pitch.)

Actually on that recording it sounded as if he slurred from Ab to Bb (or even to B natural)

Yes, I said that 3 days ago, both Ab & Bb are played:

On the recording they slid up to the Bb from the Ab (which I did not do), phrases may sound different when slowed down.

Here's the isolated note - Ab - from the passage I posted earlier.

When you do that, the Bb that follows the Ab misses its company, they prefer to be in isolation together.

It comes across as a ghost note to me

Turns out that when a ghost's etheric energy is slowed waaaaay down, it can be seen, not unlike slowing a bebop recording way down and hearing notes that can't be heard at a normal speed.

[Mick-7]

What are the chords for m. 7 Dm7-G7?

I didn't check the recording, the Omnibook just says Bb, Dm7 (iiim7) is a common sub for Bb, and Med Flory uses Dm7-G7 in his Super Sax arrangement.

[Christian Miller]

What are the chords for m. 7 Dm7-G7?

+1 to going to the next section. There is some cool stuff on the bridge, too.

Whose chords? Birds, or the rhythm section?

[charlieparker]

Whose chords? Birds, or the rhythm section?

Was thinking in terms of how Bird thought about m. 7 of RC. Just thought that Ab-D-Eb-D phrase was an interesting choice. For me the Ab-D part really jumps out. So I was wondering if that is some sort of device he plays over G7.

[Mick-7]

Was thinking in terms of how Bird thought about m. 7 of RC. Just thought that Ab-D-Eb-D phrase was an interesting choice. For me the Ab-D part really jumps out. So I was wondering if that is some sort of device he plays over G7.

Sounds like the rhythm section is playing a Bb major chord in bar 7. The piano player's comping is sparse, I only hear him play a Bb triad there, while the bass player sits on the note D, walks it down from Eb (chord = Eb7) in the previous bar and then to C (Cm7) in the following bar. In other words, the Omnibook chords appear to be correct.

[Christian Miller]

Was thinking in terms of how Bird thought about m. 7 of RC. Just thought that Ab-D-Eb-D phrase was an interesting choice. For me the Ab-D part really jumps out. So I was wondering if that is some sort of device he plays over G7.

According to Barry Harris, early on his career Charlie Parker never played G7 in a Rhythm Changes. Moose is early on. You don't see him playing G7 at all.

(I expect the Ab is a blues thing really. He's thinking Bb6)

Also true of the solo. The G7 chord is not articulated at any point.

He does play D-7 Db-7 C-7 (III- bIII- II-) in the last A of the solo though. This type of movement is very common in Bird's music - perhaps more so than III-7 VI7 II-7 V7. Check out what they really play on Billie's Bounce for instance.

[charlieparker]

(I expect the Ab is a blues thing really. He's thinking Bb6)

Interesting. Do you think it's fair to say Parker treats m. 7 and 8 kind of like a I-V7 blues turnaround and is sort of using vocabulary from that?

He also plays the Ab again on the F7 in the next measure if I recall.

Anyways, it works whatever he is doing.

[Christian Miller]

Interesting. Do you think it's fair to say Parker treats m. 7 and 8 kind of like a I-V7 blues turnaround and is sort of using vocabulary from that?

He also plays the Ab again on the F7 in the next measure if I recall.

Anyways, it works whatever he is doing.

When I play it I just kind of hear it as blues thing on Bb. No F7.

You could analyse the first A as four bars of C-7/F7 followed by four bars of Bb7, and it would make more sense. If you looked at the melody in isolation without knowing what it was, I don't think you'd see it as a line on Rhythm Changes at all. I think you'd say it was a line based on the same chords as Scrapple from the Apple but in Bb

As Joe Pass said - you can put any A section on any other A section...

This is the sort of thing I mean when I say jazz is a music of layers.

[AllanAllen]

As Joe Pass said - you can put any A section on any other A section...

Okay, I just played Paper Moon, Satin Doll and A Train over Rhythm Changes and I'm freaking out. You can't just drop something like that on me!

[charlieparker]

First 16 for me. I ended up using open strings in the second 8 bars. I couldn't work out an efficient fingering otherwise. Interested to see what others do.

[Mick-7]

I generally avoid using open strings for melodies, I'd probably finger A-2 like this in this key....

[Danil]

Posting where I am with it (my spouse is returning back from the trip, so I have to stop playing the same thing over and over again).

That is if far from perfect but at least I'm able now to have fun playing it along with the record. I used Omnibook as a reference (changed only the Bb to Ab, the intention was to keep everything else just for the sake of practice)

[charlieparker]

I generally avoid using open strings for melodies, I'd probably finger A-2 like this in this key....

My transcription is pretty different. For m. 12 I am playing F#-G-Bb-C-Bb-D-Ab. I also don't have that 16th note triplet and a few other small differences.

[charlieparker]

Posting where I am with it (my spouse is returning back from the trip, so I have to stop playing the same thing over and over again).

That is if far from perfect but at least I'm able now to have fun playing it along with the record. I used Omnibook as a reference (changed only the Bb to Ab, the intention was to keep everything else just for the sake of practice)

Nice tempo. I have to study your fingerings!

[Mick-7]

My transcription is pretty different. For m. 12 I am playing F#-G-Bb-C-Bb-D-Ab. I also don't have that 16th note triplet and a few other small differences.

I played the Omnibook (and Jazz Fake book) lead sheet head, why would you change it? Certainly it would be much easier to play if you didn't have to jump down to play the 16th note triplet in bar 14, but we shouldn't be rewriting the hard parts.

But we'll see what happens when I try to get this up to 160+ bpm or whatever, I think I'll play it in a different key and see if I'd change the fingerings.

Posting where I am with it (my spouse is returning back from the trip, so I have to stop playing the same thing over and over again).

That is if far from perfect but at least I'm able now to have fun playing it along with the record. I used Omnibook as a reference (changed only the Bb to Ab, the intention was to keep everything else just for the sake of practice)

Very good, but we'll have to subtract a few points from your score for not playing the 16th note triplet.

[charlieparker]

I played the Omnibook (and Jazz Fake book) lead sheet head, why would you change it? Certainly it would be much easier to play if you didn't have to jump down to play the 16th note triplet in bar 14, but we shouldn't be rewriting the hard parts.

Mick, I did my own transcription so I am playing what I heard. I made a few changes too after looking at PMB's transcription, but am mostly sticking to what I have. I think they are basically the same except for a few hard to hear notes. Like the 16th note triplet is really hard to hear and seems like an ornamentation that isn't essential.

Also, I transcribed it away from my instrument initially to work on ear learning and eventually double checked things with the instrument to correct a few mistakes. Have been working on whistling it, too, which involves omitting a lot of notes.

[Mick-7]

Mick, I did my own transcription so I am playing what I heard. I made a few changes too after looking at PMB's transcription, but am mostly sticking to what I have. I think they are basically the same except for a few hard to hear notes. Like the 16th note triplet is really hard to hear and seems like an ornamentation that isn't essential.

Also, I transcribed it away from my instrument initially to work on ear learning and eventually double checked things with the instrument yo correct a few mistakes. Have been working on whistling it, too, which involves omitting a lot of notes.

Actually, the 16th note triplet is quite clear on the recordings. You're going to post a recording of yourself whistling the tune at 160bpm, right?

[Danil]

Nice tempo. I have to study your fingerings!

Thanks. The fingerings might take some getting used to -- avoiding pinky usage altogether.

Very good, but we'll have to subtract a few points from your score for not playing the 16th note triplet.

Yea, it is sort of implied will continue working on it.
Triplets don't tolerate being filmed -- today I took the guitar the first time and played the whole thing twice in a row cleanly also minding those triples. But as soon as I reach to the red button, I tense up and all such subtleties go into the window

[CliffR]

Triplets don't tolerate being filmed -- today I took the guitar the first time and played the whole thing twice in a row cleanly also minding those triples. But as soon as I reach to the red button, I tense up and all such subtleties go into the window

Nevertheless, it's a great take. Nice job!

[pamosmusic]

And another:

[charlieparker]

And another:

Effortless. I feel like I am stuck in mud after seeing yours and Danil's. Not sure how I can increase the tempo. Tried that slow slow fast idea yesterday and couldn't play it at all at double time. Maybe need to break it down to smaller bits.

[AllanAllen]

Effortless. I feel like I am stuck in mud after seeing yours and Danil's. Not sure how I can increase the tempo. Tried that slow slow fast idea yesterday and couldn't play it at all at double time. Maybe need to break it down to smaller bits.

Do it for an hour. 3x slow 1x fast. You'll absolutely eat mud, then when you do it again tomorrow, it'll be smoother. Even smoother the day after that.... and so on. You can't learn any of this stuff in one day.

[pamosmusic]

Effortless. I feel like I am stuck in mud after seeing yours and Danil's. Not sure how I can increase the tempo. Tried that slow slow fast idea yesterday and couldn't play it at all at double time. Maybe need to break it down to smaller bits.

The million dollar question …. What was your metronome marking?

(also yes … always smaller bits.)

[pamosmusic]

Do it for an hour. 3x slow 1x fast. You'll absolutely eat mud, then when you do it again tomorrow, it'll be smoother. Even smoother the day after that.... and so on. You can't learn any of this stuff in one day.

Yeah I think also playing fast is two different projects that we often mix up.

1. I can play bebop language at around 160 bpm but Moose is tough and I want to get it there.

Practice slow. Give it a week or two, focusing on the tough parts, you’ll get it there.

2. I can play bebop language at around 160 bpm and I’d like to be able to play it at 200. I. Other words, trying to push your ceiling higher.

This is a longer term project. It will probably take three months maybe longer. And that’s fine. It also requires that slow muscle memory practice, but needs some additional work at those up tempos. Testing the ceiling and seeing wha it feels like to play faster. That kind of thing. That’s where I’ve found the sprints to be really useful.