Bebop Heads (#4) - Moose the Mooche

[Mick-7]

I'm not too sure what you're getting at here, Mick. All the transcriptions I've seen have the 'A' tied across to bar 8 and it's on the track as well. However, you have an 'E' rather than 'D' that I don't hear and it appears in none of those same transcriptions.

I don't think that Bird and Miles play the same note (E or D) - the first time through anyway - but I did not slow it down. I think I need to listen to versions of Bird alone playing the head.

[PMB]

It's often ghosted but a 'D' each time. I'd go with what Bird's playing rather than Miles...

[Mick-7]

It often ghosted but it's a 'D' each time. I'd go with what Bird's playing rather than Miles...

I just listened to the Bird live at Storyville recording and he clearly plays the note D. He also articulates the C#-D phrase in bar 6 as Peter suggested. That settles it, the take with Miles is a poor reference for this tune.

[PMB]

Peter's suggestion is the default when playing bebop - slurring from accented weak to strong beats.

[pamosmusic]

Peter's suggestion is the default when playing bebop - slurring from accented weak to strong beats.

Yeah that C# D spot is one where you really notice it in isolation but a lot of the time stuff that sounds fine on its own just leads to a sort of squishy feeling in the aggregate. Like if a drummer flips the high hat to the wrong beat for a measure here and there but plays everything else right.

[pamosmusic]

That settles it, the take with Miles is a poor reference for this tune.

I don’t think that’s it.

[pamosmusic]

Definitely is, Miles intonation is off in places which muddles the sound of the unison passages with Bird.

y'know Mick ... it's fine to just be wrong sometimes. Doesn't need to be Miles's fault.

[Question]

Here is a video where I am playing along to what I believe is the original recording.

I have never really over analyzed my picking; when something is not working I just look for a solution that works.

Maybe someone can learn something from my articulation and phrasing. (since I don't really know how to verbalize it)

I feel that when discussing (and playing) articulations, too little attention gets paid to the length of the notes.

As Peter said earlier; the way that you articulate (pull-off, slide, hammer etc.) a phrase greatly influences if it swings or not; note length is of equal importance.

Not just long/short, rather how long or short and where in the rhythm do you end the note.

[Mick-7]

y'know Mick ... it's fine to just be wrong sometimes. Doesn't need to be Miles's fault.

If I was wrong, I'd admit is. Miles muffs the notes every so often at higher tempos, not sure why Bird put up with that.

[pamosmusic]

If I was wrong, I'd admit is. Miles muffs the notes every so often at higher tempos, not sure why Bird put up with that.

Miles didn't record your take, Mick. I had some (I think constructive and productive to the discussion) criticisms of what you played. But I'll direct future comments to the estate of one Miles Dewey Davis III, I guess.

[Mick-7]

Here is a video where I am playing along to what I believe is the original recording.

It's hard to hear your articulation when you play along with the record.

You play the Bb in bar 7 that some some here claim is an Ab (because Miles flubs the note) and you don't play the dreaded Cm triplet in bar two, but I don't blame you for that, its' very difficult at a high tempo.

[Mick-7]

Miles didn't record your take, Mick. I had some (I think constructive and productive to the discussion) criticisms of what you played. But I'll direct future comments to the estate of one Miles Dewey Davis III, I guess.

You're right, listening to my track, my timing was a bit off in places, but if I don't attempt to play 8th note triplets at 170 bpm it will improve.

[pamosmusic]

You're right, listening to my track, my timing was a bit off in places, but if I don't attempt to play 8th note triplets at 170 bpm it will improve.

I mean sure. But I was asking about decisions you made on the slurring rather than making blanket statements about your time generally.

And probably play triplets when there are triplets?

[PMB]

If I was wrong, I'd admit is. Miles muffs the notes every so often at higher tempos, not sure why Bird put up with that.

For the same reason that Miles put with Coltrane. Bird heard his potential and listened in for what Miles was bringing to the table.

I mentioned earlier that this tune was written on the way to the session. With that in mind, Miles acquitted himself admirably.

[Mick-7]

I mean sure. But I was asking about decisions you made on the slurring rather than making blanket statements about your time generally.

And probably play triplets when there are triplets?

It is true that they do not play the Cm triplet the first time through (the part that Question played along with) but they do in the second head, after the solos.

[pamosmusic]

It is true that they do not play the Cm triplet the first time through (the part that Question played along with) but they do in the second head, after the solos.

And in the second A, and the third A, and the triplet in the last figure of the first A. Etc.

Also the Complete Savoy and Dial one kind of sounds like ghosty triplets on the first A. Who knows.

[PMB]

Here's what they play on the first A (I think Bird only plays the G of the triplet and Miles plays both G and F):



Btw, one of the statements has a Gb rather than the missing or ghosted G in the 2nd half of that bar:



While it's fun to do a bit of detective work around note choice, this is less important than the way everything's articulated and phrased. Question's take sounds great despite playing the Bb rather than Ab in bar 7.

Having said that, Ab is the note played each time and it got me thinking that it may have been chosen for its role as a component in the overall melodic voice-leading through that section:

[Mick-7]

While it's fun to do a bit of detective work around note choice, this is less important than the way everything's articulated and phrased. Question's take sounds great despite playing the Bb rather than Ab in bar 7.

Having said that, Ab is the note played each time and it got me thinking that it may have been chosen for its role as a component in the overall melodic voice-leading through that section

True about articulation/phrasing but every fake book lead sheet of the head (Jazz Fake, Parker Omnibook, Hal Leonard book, etc.) has a Bb not an Ab in bar 7. They can't all be wrong.

[pamosmusic]

They can't all be wrong.

Or can they?

[AllanAllen]

For the same reason that Miles put with Coltrane. Bird heard his potential and listened in for what Miles was bringing to the table.

I mentioned earlier that this tune was written on the way to the session. With that in mind, Miles acquitted himself admirably.

There are lots of reasons to work with someone who's a little rough around the edges. Maybe Miles paid for the sessions, maybe he had a car. Maybe he made good coffee. Maybe Dial said "You have to use Miles or there won't be a session."

Parker and Davis never explicitly said what happened and now they're dead, so all we can do is guess.

[Mick-7]

Or can they?

The music school charts, e.g., Boston U., and the Super Sax chart, also have a Bb, they're wrong too.

[pamosmusic]

I’m with PMB in that the rhythm and articulation are what hold the sound together. I’d rather obsess over that stuff.

I for sure was playing Bb. Probably couldn’t hear it way back when and got it off the Omnibook.

But I did learn it in six fingering positions and work out the slurring in every one. So there’s that I guess.

[Mick-7]

Actually Super Sax (Med Flory arrangement) plays a Db (b3rd), rather than a Bb/Ab in bar 7. Always thought it would be fun to play and multitrack record all the sax parts on guitar.

[PMB]

The music school charts, e.g., Boston U., and the Super Sax chart, also have a Bb, they're wrong too.

A lot of charts are based on existing ones with only obvious errors corrected (the first illegal RB in the '70s was full of them). Bb seems the logical choice in that passage (although I've stated why Parker may have chosen the Ab).

I heard that Ab some years ago and later discovered that Mark Voelpel included it in his excellent Charlie Parker for Guitar book, released after most of those other lead sheets:

[pamosmusic]

Six pages in, has the time come for the second A section?