Bebop Heads (#4) - Moose the Mooche

[ragman1]

using my thumb which is nice.

Too right

[AllanAllen]

Yeah.

I find this easier in fingerings where the hammered notes go across the strings, one note per string fingerings. But I suppose that’s where sweeping becomes a consideration anyway.

Is that going to be loud enough? My taps are way less audible than my plucks.

It does uniform note volume stop mattering at these tempos?

That said sweeping arpeggios of this kind is also a natural part of jazz guitar. People have been doing it long before some pointy guitar guys at GIT decided to give it a name… I think it happens naturally if you approach the music by ear. It’s very natural to the guitar, but then so is hammering…

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0:34 seconds into this transcription play-along we have Oscar Moore sweeping.

[charlieparker]

First 8 bars with my pc metronome at 164 bpm, played entirely at the 3rd fret position.

Moose the Mooche, 1st 8 bars - Box.com

I would suggest that people practice playing this with a metronome because there's a tendency to vary one's tempo, i.e., slow down on the harder phrases. Set your metronome at the fastest speed at which you can play this head with the correct rhythms. In my opinion, when it comes to bebop, it's better to be sloppy with the notes than with the rhythms, of course we'd prefer to be neither but that's not always possible.

Sounded good but the last bit sounded pff to me. Guess you are still playing the Bb instead of the Ab.

[charlieparker]

Is that going to be loud enough? My taps are way less audible than my plucks.

It does uniform note volume stop mattering at these tempos?




0:34 seconds into this transcription play-along we have Oscar Moore sweeping.

I think the point is that it doesn't matter. They are kind of like embellishments or ghost notes. You can hardly hear them on the recording.

[pamosmusic]

First 8 bars with my pc metronome at 164 bpm, played entirely at the 3rd fret position.

Moose the Mooche, 1st 8 bars - Box.com

Slur placement seems a little wonky? I’m curious how people are processing that. It’s fast and challenging, so the tendency is to slur to make the notes come off, but it can also disrupt the rhythmic vibe when the slurs are in odd spots.

Set your metronome at the fastest speed at which you can play this head with the correct rhythms. In my opinion, when it comes to bebop, it's better to be sloppy with the notes than with the rhythms, of course we'd prefer to be neither but that's not always possible.

I would revise that to say that you should set it to the fastest at which you can play the correct rhythms *and then play it half time*

Better to be sloppy with notes than with rhythms.

Best to be sloppy with neither.

This one is good for bursts … half time half time half time, full tempo. Repeat. Bump the metronome a couple clicks and do it again.

[Mick-7]

It's simple - at least, for sweep-picking it is simple. If you want to sweep (physically) down i.e to the ground you will slant the plectrum so that the part of it you're gripping will point down to the ground whilst the part making contact with the strings will point upwards. Obviously vice versa for sweeping up.

Jack does that in this clip, however, it doesn't look like a conscious effort, the pick only slants because he is holding it loosely. That doesn't work for me -- Legato + swept/economy picked melodic minor arpeggios over Alt chords - YouTube

[Mick-7]

Sounded good but the last bit sounded off to me. Guess you are still playing the Bb instead of the Ab.

In bar 7? On the recording they slid up to the Bb from the Ab (which I did not do), phrases may sound different when slowed down.

Slur placement seems a little wonky?

Was it? Which part? I was playing it by ear, I may have remembered it incorrectly, I'll check it.

[Mick-7]

I think the point is that it doesn't matter. They are kind of like embellishments or ghost notes. You can hardly hear them on the recording.

That's not true on Moose the Mooche, sometimes Parker clearly articulates the arpeggios while other times he plays the line differently. The question is, do you want to be able to articulate them?

0:34 seconds into this transcription play-along we have Oscar Moore sweeping.

That's typical guitarist sweep phrasing though, different and easier than the way saxophonists would phrase the lines.

[AllanAllen]

That's typical guitarist sweep phrasing though, different and easier than the way saxophonists would phrase the lines.

Christian stated sweep picking was around before shred metal, which I proved with an example.

Just showing proof as to why we should put effort into the technique. I'd bet there's a Charlie Christian example, I would be hard pressed to believe Charlie Christian, who soloed off chord shapes, never thought to sweep the shapes.

[pamosmusic]

Was it? Which part? I was playing it by ear, I may have remembered it incorrectly, I'll check it.

Just generally. Lots of spots I guess. Curious why you made particular choices.

one in particular — the repeated C# to D figure right near the end, you’re picking both C#s and slurring into the Ds and it changes the rhythmic emphasis of the passage a good deal.

[Mick-7]

one in particular — the repeated C# to D figure right near the end, you’re picking both C#s and slurring into the Ds and it changes the rhythmic emphasis of the passage a good deal.

That is how Bird phrases it: C#>D - C#>D - F.

Curious why you made particular choices..

As I said, I played it from memory, I'll try playing it along with the recording and see what stands out.

[pamosmusic]

That is how Bird phrases it: C#>D - C#>D - F.

Agree to disagree.

As I said, I played it from memory, I'll try playing it along with the recording and see what stands out.

Yes, maybe.

[Mick-7]

That is how Bird phrases it: C#>D - C#>D - F.

Agree to disagree.

After listening to the recording again, t'would be better to hammer on the D notes, is that what you'd do?

[PMB]

Christian stated sweep picking was around before shred metal, which I proved with an example.

Just showing proof as to why we should put effort into the technique. I'd bet there's a Charlie Christian example, I would be hard pressed to believe Charlie Christian, who soloed off chord shapes, never thought to sweep the shapes.

The guy who established 'sweep picking' (he called it consecutive-alternate) was Chuck Wayne in the mid-1940s. There were examples of short arpeggios bursts or 'rakes' before then but it was Chuck who created a whole system around the technique.

CW was a Charlie Christian-style picker who employed mostly downstrokes until one night after a gig with pianist George Wallington, he visited a nearby club where Charlie Parker was performing. Upon hearing Bird spin out long, fluid lines, Wayne's immediate thought was 'I have to reinvent my picking style or give up playing guitar'. As part of that reinvention, he began to incorporate 3-note per string scales and so much else that was picked up yet never properly acknowledged by fusion players such as Frank Gambale and shred metal exponents.

[AllanAllen]

What do you mean when you say Chuck Wayne established sweeping?

Oscar Moore was also sweeping in the 1940s.

And Django was doing it in 1935.

[pamosmusic]

After listening to the recording again, t'would be better to hammer on the D notes, is that what you'd do?

pull off on to the C#

[Mick-7]

pull off on to the C#

- the C#'s come before the D's not after them.

You could pick the first two notes but it would make the passage harder to play at a quick tempo and not sound much if at all different.

[pamosmusic]

- the C#'s come before the D's not after them.

first one does, but the second one doesn’t?

pick C# pick D pull to C# pick D

You could pick the first two notes but it would make the passage harder to play at a quick tempo and not sound much if at all different.

Quite a bit different. Listen to yours and the way it sounds like the C#s are grace notes. They don’t punch much. It’s a small thing but in the aggregate, choices like that make a huge difference.

And harder maybe, but in the words of Eric from Boy Meets World … “Life’s tough — get a helmet.”

Life's tough, Get a helmet! - YouTube

[PMB]

What do you mean when you say Chuck Wayne established sweeping?

Oscar Moore was also sweeping in the 1940s.

And Django was doing it in 1935.

I can hear the short unidirectional bursts I mentioned but these are nothing like the long lines created by Chuck Wayne. For example, check out the intro and outro to this recording to get an idea of what I'm talking about. CW really had an incredible system worked out and not just for lines - he also incorporated all the inversions of 7th chords into his playing (unusual for his time and noted by by both Tal Farlow and Jimmy Raney) and completely overhauled his pick technique by his mid '20s!:

[Mick-7]

And harder maybe, but in the words of Eric from Boy Meets World … “Life’s tough — get a helmet.”

I don't play as well when I wear a helmet, I think it's because it blocks the transmissions from my muse.

[AllanAllen]

I can hear the short unidirectional bursts I mentioned but these are nothing like the long lines created by Chuck Wayne. For example, check out the intro and outro to this recording to get an idea of what I'm talking about. CW really had an incredible system worked out and not just for lines - he also incorporated all the inversions of 7th chords into his playing (unusual for his time and noted by by both Tal Farlow and Jimmy Raney) and completely overhauled his pick technique by his mid '20s!:

Thanks I get it now.

Did he ever make a book? I think he passed before the hot licks tapes started up right?

So much to work on. Yet these guys figured it out by the time they were half my age.

[PMB]

Thanks I get it now.

Did he ever make a book? I think he passed before the hot licks tapes started up right?

So much to work on. Yet these guys figured it out by the time they were half my age.

I wrote the book! Well, at least one of them... a biography, 16 transcriptions with analysis of each tune. I visited Chuck's widow and she kindly granted me access to all his notes, photos, inventions etc. In fact, she showed me the acetate of Sonny, a tune by CW that Miles lifted and retitled Solar. I advised her to send it on to The Library of Congress with the rest of his archive to be digitised. Jack Wilkins penned the forward, Jim Hall and a few others offered some reminiscences of Chuck.

An ex-student of CW's paid me to do the transcriptions after seeing a few of my things online and in Just Jazz Guitar Magazine. I was in negotiation with Hal Leonard and they were very keen to release it but the market changed completely around 15 years ago once transcriptions started to appear all over the internet.

Apart from that, there were a couple of books on chords and arpeggios co-written with his student Ralph Patt and published back in the early '60s (long out of print) and two other '90s Hal Leonard folios, Chords and Scales edited by another student, Agostino DiGiorgio:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23665711109...UAAeSwIctpoJFw

Guitar Studies – Chords Guitar Method (911) by Hal Leonard

Guitar Studies – Scales Guitar Method (896) by Hal Leonard

[Mick-7]

I wrote the book! Well, at least one of them... a biography, 16 transcriptions with analysis of each tune. I visited Chuck's widow and she kindly granted me access to all his notes, photos, inventions etc. In fact, she showed me the acetate of Sonny, a tune by CW that Miles lifted and retitled Solar. I advised her to send it on to The Library of Congress with the rest of his archive to be digitized. Jack Wilkins penned the forward, Jim Hall and a few others offered some reminiscences of Chuck.

Have you thought about self publishing it? I think there'd be a market for it.

[PMB]

Have you thought about self publishing it? I think there'd be a market for it.

Yes, but there were copyright legal hassles that I tried to resolve and they proved difficult at the time. I included most of the heads because Chuck was a great arranger. Maybe I'll have another look at it down the track.

Anyway, back to 'Moose'...

[PMB]

I see that the 8th bar of Moose the Mooche is incorrect in the fake books, they actually play this:

Attachment 130654

* the first note (A) is held over from bar 7.

I'm not too sure what you're getting at here, Mick. All the transcriptions I've seen have the 'A' tied across to bar 8 and it's on the track as well. However, you have an 'E' rather than 'D' that I don't hear and it appears in none of those same transcriptions.