20th century jazz guitar forum?

**kris** · 12-28-2021, 05:14 AM

Twenty years ago my fellow US bass player told me that he played a club concert with Brad Mehldau.
Even then, Brad was playing brilliantly.
Each time I listen to his performances with great interest.
Left and right hands playing different rhythms is something amazing.

**Alter** · 12-28-2021, 05:37 AM

I try to listen to everything (and everything is a bold thing to try to do, there's literally hundreds of great active jazz artists making music).

But I keep coming back to jazz from 57-63 more or less. This IS my favorite music to listen to, so many CDs that I've heard countless times and they never get old. I like the groove, the sound, the simplicity of the rhythm sections, the vibe of what jazz was to society and to music then, the energy of the musicians that were playing three sets a night for an audience for weeks or months at a time, the great soloists and leaders of course..

Current jazz is more accomplished from many aspects, extremely advanced players. Especially guitarists are fresh and diversified, with all these modern styles and sounds. It is incredible what they can do with the music and where they can take it. But it is also more academic and intellectual. No one gigs as much anymore, and it shows..

The last current CD I was listening to that reminded me of the old stuff was Joey DeFransesco's "40"...

**kris** · 12-28-2021, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Alter

I try to listen to everything (and everything is a bold thing to try to do, there's literally hundreds of great active jazz artists making music).

But I keep coming back to jazz from 57-63 more or less. This IS my favorite music to listen to, so many CDs that I've heard countless times and they never get old. I like the groove, the sound, the simplicity of the rhythm sections, the vibe of what jazz was to society and to music then, the energy of the musicians that were playing three sets a night for an audience for weeks or months at a time, the great soloists and leaders of course..

Current jazz is more accomplished from many aspects, extremely advanced players. Especially guitarists are fresh and diversified, with all these modern styles and sounds. It is incredible what they can do with the music and where they can take it. But it is also more academic and intellectual. No one gigs as much anymore, and it shows..

The last current CD I was listening to that reminded me of the old stuff was Joey DeFransesco's "40"...

+1
I agree in 100%.
I couldn't write it and explain it like Alter.
Someone who has been playing jazz music for a long time and is an active musician has an opinion on this subject similar to mine.
Jazzingly
Kris

**Christian Miller** · 12-28-2021, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by kris

Twenty years ago my fellow US bass player told me that he played a club concert with Brad Mehldau.
Even then, Brad was playing brilliantly.
Each time I listen to his performances with great interest.
Left and right hands playing different rhythms is something amazing.

No kidding. Early 90s Mehldau is brain batteringly good

all of these guys have a complete grounding in bop. It’s the New York way I think. Dave Douglas was a monster bop trumpeter. They developed into other things but they had that basis. Chris Potter another obvious example.

contemporary vs bop is a false dichotomy; these players master the tradition and then move on. It’s a tall order for most.

**Peter C** · 12-28-2021, 09:57 AM

Cool Alter. It's what that extremely fertile period you refer to + a little prog etc gave birth to that interests me personally. My ears are very much tuned in to the present, though I don't know that what I listen to is essentially more academic and intellectual, as you say.

PS Absolutely love Mehldau but didn't mention him as he isn't a guitarist.

**Alter** · 12-28-2021, 10:27 AM

For me it worked the opposite way. Coming from Rock and blues, I first discovered more modern players, like Mike Stern, Abercrombie, Scofield, Metheny, etc, and then the more traditional ones. Same with other instruments..

**kris** · 12-28-2021, 11:04 AM

A great recording of Adam Rogers from 20 years ago..:

**Sam Sherry** · 12-28-2021, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by srlank01

OTOH.....It's an old tune, but fairly new to me. Yes. I know it's not a guitar, but I've been doubling (no pun intended) on this beast for the past 15 months. It's also "new" to me.

Fifteen months? Yow! You're on it!

FWIW I've checked a bunch of Pohlmann basses over the years and very few sound as nice as what you're getting from that one.

Eager to hear what the next fifteen months brings for you, maestro!

**Peter C** · 12-28-2021, 02:12 PM

Duh

**kris** · 12-29-2021, 03:34 AM

I am curious how many people-participants of the discussion saw live concerts of young guitarists ...?
I don't mean youtube ...

I was at a Lage Lund concert a few years ago.

**Litterick** · 12-29-2021, 06:03 AM

I see guitarists play whenever the opportunity arises – mostly New Zealand talent like Callum Allardice, seen here with The Jac and with Antipodes.

**kris** · 12-29-2021, 06:41 AM

Nice stuff.
I associate this mood of the composition and the guitarist's playing with Kurt Rosenwinkel.
I got this impression after listening to the video.I might be wrong.

**kris** · 12-29-2021, 07:20 AM

Something new from Poland:

**ragman1** · 12-29-2021, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

No kidding. Early 90s Mehldau is brain batteringly good

all of these guys have a complete grounding in bop. It’s the New York way I think. Dave Douglas was a monster bop trumpeter. They developed into other things but they had that basis. Chris Potter another obvious example.

contemporary vs bop is a false dichotomy; these players master the tradition and then move on. It’s a tall order for most.

Enfin, Christian! That's the whole point. Mehldau is just good and beyond good. As you say, he starts here and goes ahead.

That's all. That's what the thread's about.

But there are few of them. And it has to be that way, too.

**kris** · 12-29-2021, 07:40 AM

I noticed that the specific mood of the songs somehow combines young jazz guitar talents.
There is some sadness in it, or too much of that sadness.

**Peter C** · 12-29-2021, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Litterick

I see guitarists play whenever the opportunity arises – mostly New Zealand talent like Callum Allardice, seen here with The Jac and with Antipodes.

Saving this for later, I noticed some very strong compositional skills going on there. Thanks

**Christian Miller** · 12-29-2021, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Alter

For me it worked the opposite way. Coming from Rock and blues, I first discovered more modern players, like Mike Stern, Abercrombie, Scofield, Metheny, etc, and then the more traditional ones. Same with other instruments..

Well I don’t think many guitarists start off with an archtop these days haha. Going back is cool, but in many ways going chronologically makes more sense. Studying swing was really helpful for getting my head around bop for example…. But that’s life, messy.

But yeah I’m often surprised at how much bop the Abercrombie’s and Scos have. Metheny is well known of course. As for the current crop, Lage Lund has recorded some gorgeous bop, although it’s hardly what we’d think of him now. Kurt has Intuit, and so on.

**Christian Miller** · 12-29-2021, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Alter

For me it worked the opposite way. Coming from Rock and blues, I first discovered more modern players, like Mike Stern, Abercrombie, Scofield, Metheny, etc, and then the more traditional ones. Same with other instruments..

Well I don’t think many guitarists start off with an archtop these days haha. Going back is cool, but in many ways going chronologically makes more sense. Studying swing was really helpful for getting my head around bop for example…. But that’s life, messy.

But yeah I’m often surprised at how much bop the Abercrombie’s and Scos and so on have. It’s easy to stereotype players. Metheny’s background in bop (or at least post bop) is well known of course. Stern plays straight up bop so much of the time….

As for the current crop, Lage Lund has recorded some gorgeous bop, although it’s hardly what we’d think of him now. Kurt has Intuit, and so on.

and I think it goes back further. A lot of them seem to have an interest in pre war music too.

Anyway there’s not one way to go about things, and I’m not saying we all have to do it that way, I just find it interesting how the old and new renew each other.

**kris** · 12-29-2021, 10:15 AM

New jazz musicians and new jazz audience are normal.
And I have a Miles Davis concert in 1983 on my mind all the time...where are these times?

**srlank01** · 12-29-2021, 02:05 PM

Oh my Lord. No. This isn't me!! The topic was about being stuck in the past, and I was simply pondering why it is that older players playing older music are frowned upon, labeled "Boomers" (with a non-flattering insinuation attached to the label) and are generally thought of past their expiration date.

OTOH, you got a younger player like this guy cooking on this tune, and people find him refreshing.

No this man is not me. I am a Jewish (culture) female, music therapist from Cali. I have been playing upright bass for 15 months and started working on this tune a couple of months ago. Besides Oscar Pettiford himself, this is my favorite version. This gentleman has been likely been playing for a good while, and it shows.

My communication skills (at least online) must be incredibly poor, as my message seems to be misunderstood at every turn.

Examples so far....

Main point of post is to point out that though I enjoy the music of a lot of newer/progressive players, oftentimes their improvisation, and even more so their compositions are very hard to breakdown. I would love to know more about what they are doing.

So my statement was to point out that there are certain YouTubers (such as Adam and Beato) who can break down certain facets of music. That's all. It wasn't about racial stuff, what Beato's agenda is or what killed prog music.

So it seems that I stick to communicating with my forensic/psychiatric clientele lol. I seem to have a better chance of being able to dialogue.

But no. Absolutely not. This is not me. But hey, I now feel so embarrassed by this particular misinterpretation, that I am even more motivated to own this particular tune lol. And maybe I will stick to communicating solely with an instrument.

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

Fifteen months? Yow! You're on it!

FWIW I've checked a bunch of Pohlmann basses over the years and very few sound as nice as what you're getting from that one.

Eager to hear what the next fifteen months brings for you, maestro!

**srlank01** · 12-29-2021, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by kris

I am curious how many people-participants of the discussion saw live concerts of young guitarists ...?
I don't mean youtube ...

I was at a Lage Lund concert a few years ago.

I haven't seen a lot of newer players live, but I did get to see Julian Lage at Small in NYC. This guy lives in my area, and I've seen him live more than once. I'm definitely a fan. His name is Andy Waddell.

**jameslovestal** · 12-29-2021, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by srlank01

Oh my Lord. No. This isn't me!! The topic was about being stuck in the past, and I was simply pondering why it is that older players playing older music are frowned upon, labeled "Boomers" (with a non-flattering insinuation attached to the label) and are generally thought of past their expiration date.

I also assumed that was you since, well that is how you made it sound, so I'm glad you cleared that up.

As for the overall point here: Like you, I admit I need to understand the music associated with most of the new (to me) compositions coming from younger (say under 40) musicians. I.e. I need to see the chord progression, as well as the melody so I can get really into the song; this is why I tend to listen to jazz standards; I know the chord progression s so I can relate to how that is approached (and sometimes even work some of their magic into my elementary playing).

**Peter C** · 12-29-2021, 07:58 PM

Regarding seeing live performances, that's gonna depend on where one lives, innit? Would be good to keep that in mind. 20+ years ago when I lived in Barcelona there was live music growing on trees. Almost. Not where I am now, however.

**Peter C** · 12-29-2021, 08:44 PM

Really like those Callum Allardice tracks. For me, it's all about composition and arrangement. Curious fact: New Zealand's population is actually smaller than that of Catalonia (cap. Barcelona), here in Europe.

**ccroft** · 12-29-2021, 09:14 PM

I like a lot of the 'newer' stuff that I find posted here on JGF. For the record: I'm a boomer. I started playing jazz in the late 60's and was most interested in what was contemporary to that time. ESP to Filles and on. The young guitarists of that time influenced me the most. Especially Johnny Mac, Coryell, Scofield and Abercrombie. It's a big part of who I am now.

It's only a matter of minutes before somebody comes along to prove the general old-school leanings of this forum by slagging the clip by Andy Waddell in post #243. "immature, too many notes, robotic, etc etc..." Y'all know who I mean.

The trouble around here is that some of the traditionalists are too intolerant, and too vocal. I wish they'd just keep it to themselves and let those of us who are interested in 'other' enjoy ourselves. I bet there's more out there like me. I don't say much about the clips. That's partly because I'm a musician, but also because I don't want stoke the flame wars.

That brings up something else that's been on my mind for a while. If you don't like a particular kind of 'jazz', then you're unlikely to have listened to, or played much of it. That lack of experience makes you unqualified to comment. EG: there's lots of threads here from time to time about the classic rock guys of the 60's and 70's. I never liked that music and never listened to it. I have nothing to say in those threads, and that's just fine if you ask me.