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Lobomov, I said I like Strino as a player and that her gender or physical appearance are not important to me when I'm listening.
Kris, you don't get half of what I'm saying. Do something else?
John A exhibits his habitual coherence. Could be the last post as far as I'm concerned.
PS Recommended reading: the pitfalls of binary thinking. This thread was never about either/or. (editing this post to avoid creating a new one).Last edited by Peter C; 12-22-2021 at 09:37 AM.
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12-21-2021 02:14 PM
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This is awkward.
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Fortunately for me, music is there to be played, not to be talked about.
Originally Posted by Peter C
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I still wonder why a more even distribution of comments from others matters to you. Originally Posted by Peter C
Hey, there is a lot of stuff on this forum I'm not interested in (mostly post about non jazz music and musicians), but I just read and comment on what interests me, and ignore the rest.
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Well, there are, but YouTube is also how I often find interesting new stuff to listen to. It's how I found out about Ben Monder, Peter Bernstein, Gilad Hekselman, Chris Crocco and Jonathan Kreisberg, for example. They are some of my favorite players. Originally Posted by kris
I almost never "analyze" music when I'm listening to it, I just enjoy it. Probably why I am not a better jazz musician than I am.Last edited by Cunamara; 12-22-2021 at 10:03 PM.
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I heard Bernstein at Mezzrow (online of couse) the other night. Post bop jamaroo stuff. Didn't like it as much as his more straightahead stuff, at least in that particular band. Thought it was a bit monotonous. Sorry.
Just one gig though. Bernstein is great.
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Really like his trio stuff with Larry Goldings and Bill Stewart, in particular.
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I've known these guitarists for a long time. Originally Posted by Cunamara
Probably all guitarists have the same thing: when they listen, they want to learn something.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Two players who channel Django without sounding like clones…. Originally Posted by kris
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TLDR; but I'm getting the impression that there's been some discussion regarding old vs new Jazz? If so, then there probably has been some (there usually is) disparaging remarks about those that listen to or play older styles of Jazz - mouldy old farts etc. Let's face it, people who follow contemporary Jazz are always gonna be "cooler", I mean, young moderns are always cooler than their parents, or god forbid, their grand parents right? For example, who would wanna listen to Charlie Parker, Thelonius Monk, Jackie MacLean, Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane, Eric Dolphy, Charles Mingus, Dexter Gordon, Bill Evans, Art Blakey, Wes Montgomery etc etc. Especially when there are so many way cooler modern Jazz artists around, like, er, well take for instance, um ....
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John Scofield is the new Bix Biederbecke apparently
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Actually, jazz died in 1965, turned into music for people to feel smart to.
As far as modern guitar players, too much effects for me. But it's okay, I know I'm out of touch.
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Nah, I'm not saying that at all. More like - Jazz died in 1966, and it's time for us to move back! Originally Posted by Lobomov
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I am very much into modern styles/sounds, as that is what really turned me on to wanting to play jazz on guitar (Scofield, Martino, Holdsworth, Metheny, Frisell), and I really dig where it has gone.
I also dig the more traditional styles, including—no, especially—Django. For me, Django reminded me that it was ok to play guitar again because the playing is so guitaristic, rather than trying to get into the mindset of a horn player. That kind of thing came later, but early on I really struggled with it.
My favorite players today are Ben Monder, Steve Cardenas, Chris Crocco, Nir Felder and a few others, all of whom I’ve played with or studied with on some level. I think the expanding tonalities is one of the most exciting things I’ve heard in a long time. Players today are really catching up with 20th century classical techniques of relying less on tonality and finding all the right wrong notes.
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Let’s hope they don’t catch all the way up. That crashed and burned. Originally Posted by Neer
After spending too much time with it, the wonderful guitar composer Leo Brouwer said “Atonalism is dead”.
Better keep that day job.
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Well, gosh, C., if you're going to just enjoy all this great music, I say, Bless You! You must be doing something right! I've long sensed that the whole "suffering for one's art" thing has an inherent flaw.... Originally Posted by Cunamara
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Atonality found its way into jazz via composers in the 50s but there were no improvisers who could improvise in that style back then—it was, as Paul Bley said, mostly pianists who couldn’t improvise in real time (he had a tendency to be a bit brash and direct but his general sentiment is on point). I think in improvisation is where atonality really shines, especially against modal backdrops. But there are definitely bad choices, even in atonality and I have a pretty good BS detector.
Maybe extreme chromaticism is a better way to phrase it. But I remember reading a Schoenberg letter that expressed his sorrow that a friend/colleague had told him that he found his serial music to be devoid of melody. I think the melodic content is there. I’ve always been surprised that when I put on his piano pieces in serial style, I can sing along with some of them.Last edited by Neer; 12-24-2021 at 01:31 PM.
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"Ladies and gentlemen, I've suffered for my music. Now it's your turn." Originally Posted by citizenk74
I've long sensed that the whole "suffering for one's art" thing has an inherent flaw....
-- Neil Innes
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Right, some of them. Kinda says it all. Originally Posted by Neer
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You should read a thread before commenting on it. You would avoid making uninformed and prejudiced comments like this one. Originally Posted by princeplanet
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Poor Bix only lived 28 years. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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For example, my friend from Poland:.... Originally Posted by Lobomov
This randomly just showed up in my youtube feed ... It's not like the young don't listen to and perform older music .. They even can make it sound pretty and not just cutting edge modern
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Fair point, and have since read through this thread. Seems I wasn't too far off though, and I too am sorry that these threads become predictable. As for being "uninformed" and "prejudiced", well yeah. But then, who isn't? FWIW, I actually think I lean a little on the progressive side when it comes to most of the Arts, and am interested in new trends to see how our ever changing culture is being reflected. But I've come to my own personal (and no doubt prejudiced ) conclusion that the Arts in general are not in a "Golden" era. Every era cannot be Golden, the "belle epoch" is always preceded and succeeded by a comparative floundering culture that seeks to find its way. Originally Posted by Litterick
Some might be surprised then, to find that I actually champion some of the great Atonal or Serial composers of the 20th C - Shoenberg, Webern, Berg etc. A comment was made earlier in this thread that their's was a failed movement, like say how Jazz Fusion might be viewed (hehe).... But I feel quite certain that History will re-evaluate those decades most respectfully. Jazz Fusion on the other hand....
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Nothing wrong with being old (I should know). The problem as I saw it in my OP - having your ears glued in a particular period of music - is that you are going to lose out on a lot of potentially interesting developments in jazz and there's a lot of great music being composed and played in the 21st century. It's not just young technically proficient (to the extreme) players blazing up and down the neck. I mentioned above the perills of binary thinking.
Wes is great
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