20th century jazz guitar forum?

**sgcim** · 12-29-2021, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Peter C

Regarding seeing live performances, that's gonna depend on where ones lives, innit? Would be good to keep that in mind. 20+ years ago when I lived in Barcelona there was live music growing on trees. Almost. Not where I am now, however.

Did you ever hear any music by Musica Urbana, led by the composer Joan Amargos? It featured the great bassist Carles Benavent.
The band was a fusion of jazz, funk, classical and Catalan music. Great stuff.

**Peter C** · 12-29-2021, 09:27 PM

^ Yes. I've seen Benavent playing bass lines and solo fills simultaneously at jams. Mad to watch. Bedtime here more tomorrow/demà/mañana ?

**srlank01** · 12-29-2021, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Litterick

I see guitarists play whenever the opportunity arises – mostly New Zealand talent like Callum Allardice, seen here with The Jac and with Antipodes.

Geez, I haven't heard the first post yet, but that second one is inspiring for sure.

**sgcim** · 12-29-2021, 11:38 PM

Si.
They've remastered both Musica Urbana records this year in September, so someone remembers them.

Amargos is a classical composer and pianist, and the music the band plays is mostly written out, but there's room for improvisation (especially Benavent) that is Flamenco based.
There's some similarity to Chick Corea's Spanish influenced music, but Amargos is a superior composer.

**Donplaysguitar** · 12-29-2021, 11:52 PM

The second one (Antipodes)
is very derivative of In a Silent Way, but that’s OK.

**kris** · 12-30-2021, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by ccroft

I like a lot of the 'newer' stuff that I find posted here on JGF. For the record: I'm a boomer. I started playing jazz in the late 60's and was most interested in what was contemporary to that time. ESP to Filles and on. The young guitarists of that time influenced me the most. Especially Johnny Mac, Coryell, Scofield and Abercrombie. It's a big part of who I am now.

It's only a matter of minutes before somebody comes along to prove the general old-school leanings of this forum by slagging the clip by Andy Waddell in post #243. "immature, too many notes, robotic, etc etc..." Y'all know who I mean.

The trouble around here is that some of the traditionalists are too intolerant, and too vocal. I wish they'd just keep it to themselves and let those of us who are interested in 'other' enjoy ourselves. I bet there's more out there like me. I don't say much about the clips. That's partly because I'm a musician, but also because I don't want stoke the flame wars.

That brings up something else that's been on my mind for a while. If you don't like a particular kind of 'jazz', then you're unlikely to have listened to, or played much of it. That lack of experience makes you unqualified to comment. EG: there's lots of threads here from time to time about the classic rock guys of the 60's and 70's. I never liked that music and never listened to it. I have nothing to say in those threads, and that's just fine if you ask me.

It is obvious that musicians who have long been interested in jazz comment on differently.
When it comes to me, for example, I'm not as passionate about new products as I was a dozen years ago.
I have a great fondness for the past all the time and I always discover something new in old recordings.
It is probably also due to the fact that old albums, which I do not have in my collection, appear on YouTube.
I had days when I could listen to 5-8 jazz album-recordings a day from YouTube.
This is really a lot.
I have this feeling all the time: why haven't I heard it before?-This is such a great album.
I appreciate all young musicians but I am passionate about old artists.

**Peter C** · 12-30-2021, 10:14 AM

@ sgcim - Catalonia is a very fertile land musically speaking. I have been a "fan" of Carles Benavent for many years and my favourite format in which he has worked is with Jorge Pardo and Di Geraldo.

**Peter C** · 01-05-2022, 09:53 PM

(The below post made me decide that what I wrote had no positive end, so I deleted it)

**guitar1303** · 01-05-2022, 10:20 PM

I participate in forums in several areas of interest and, over the years, I have never criticized a fellow poster -- until now. Get over yourself, Peter C. You do yourself a significant disservice to keep up your tireless efforts to shame those who don't share the same passion you do for more contemporary jazz guitar music/artists. You've made your point. You have beaten the dead horse. You have ripped off its flesh. You have broken its bones. Any trace of the horse is gone.

**Peter C** · 01-05-2022, 10:52 PM

^Well you may well have a point, whoever you are. However, it's rather striking that this should be one of your just 19 posts over the last 12+ years, so a bit suspicious. What else do you have to contribute?

**EastwoodMike** · 01-06-2022, 03:16 AM

Dear Guitar1303: I don’t know you either.
But if your 19 posts provided just one Jem of wisdom or knowledge that has advanced my own capabilities then I welcome it. Even if you had made just a single post. Bagging people and pulling their credibility into question based on the number of their posts is simply not right. We wonder why people give up on this forum and sages of wisdom leave.
Don’t let this sort of crap make you feel your contributions don’t matter. Some people just want to provoke reactions.

**kris** · 01-06-2022, 04:47 AM

I don't know if the number of posts sent is of any importance.
After all, this is a virtual world...

**Donplaysguitar** · 01-06-2022, 10:02 AM

The new stuff has always been hit and miss. It can take some time for the merit of something to be finally assessed.

Unless we're talking about greatness.

**Peter C** · 01-06-2022, 04:27 PM

I was not decrying the above poster's low post count per se, rather why he/she would decide to make that lambasting post his/her yearly contribution to the forum.

I think I voiced my appreciation of a couple of EastwoodMike's posts earlier on in this thread, but this last comment about my somehow seeking to vex others is misguided. You don't know me if you say that matey!

**Peter C** · 01-06-2022, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar

The new stuff has always been hit and miss. It can take some time for the merit of something to be finally assessed.

Unless we're talking about greatness.

I think that can often be the case, although it didn't take me more than a few seconds to warm to Gilad Hekselman the first time I heard him. Ben Monder took a bit longer, I will admit.

One last thing: the name of this website is simply Jazz Guitar (not specifically swing, contemporary, bebop etc, just jazz), so on the face of it, it would seem a good place to talk about players like Matthew Stevens. Where if not? On a rock forum?

Anyway, I'm really done with this thread now.

**citizenk74** · 01-06-2022, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Peter C

(The below post made me decide that what I wrote had no positive end, so I deleted it)

Spoken like a gentleman. Well done, Sir!

**guitar1303** · 01-06-2022, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Peter C

I was not decrying the above poster's low post count per se, rather why he/she would decide to make that lambasting post his/her yearly contribution to the forum.

I think I voiced my appreciation of a couple of EastwoodMike's posts earlier on in this thread, but this last comment about my somehow seeking to vex others is misguided. You don't know me if you say that matey!

You're right about the fact that I rarely post. Most of my posts have been about modestly priced archtops (an area with which I am very familiar) when posters have asked questions about them. I come here to learn, not pontificate. No need to be "suspicious" (your word) about my post above; in several of your posts on this thread, you were condescending to other posters who tried to explain (as I did in my first post in this thread) their preference for the older (more traditional?) jazz guitar.

I look at the posts by Kris who, I believe, did a fantastic job of explaining why some of us prefer that style. He also made clear that a lot of us do listen to newer music but the limitations of time force us to the music we find more enjoyable. AlsoRan responded really well, too (as did a number of others). Despite that, you just couldn't resist making the sarcastic remarks about those with whom you disagreed (as when you stated that "there is no open mindedness" in the thread). Throughout the thread, several posters tried to subtly impress on you that you were being disrespectful. Maybe you didn't realize it as you wrote, but you came across as trying to vex others -- and that's why I felt I needed to call it out. I have learned a lot from many posters on this thread and, even when I disagree with their opinions, I respect what they bring to the table.

How you feel about the different types of jazz guitar and the different styles of playing is your business -- and you sound truly interested in promoting the newer players. There is nothing wrong with that at all and you brought a lot to the discussion you started. The problem was that you weren't as open to the opinions of others as you wanted them to be of you. You can't do that and then cry "foul" when someone responds in kind.

**srlank01** · 01-07-2022, 12:15 AM

At the risk of creating any other controversy, what do y'all think of newer Instagram players like Ben Eunson or Joshua Meader, Jake Estner etc?

Neon - Tabs/Lesson Available - YouTube

**kris** · 01-07-2022, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by srlank01

At the risk of creating any other controversy, what do y'all think of newer Instagram players like Ben Eunson or Joshua Meader, Jake Estner etc?

Neon - Tabs/Lesson Available - YouTube

Ben Eunson...A very good example of a "young" guitarist.
He posted on YouTube a large amount of video clips playing jazz standards.
It does it perfectly and you can see that a lot of work is put into it.
Nevertheless, his playing seems to be perfectly worked out.
Sometimes I ask myself to what extent is spontaneous improvisation?
I have his book 50-modern jazz guitar phrases.I like all these phrases.
I started going through it carefully.

**Christian Miller** · 01-08-2022, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by kris

Ben Eunson...A very good example of a "young" guitarist.
He posted on YouTube a large amount of video clips playing jazz standards.
It does it perfectly and you can see that a lot of work is put into it.
Nevertheless, his playing seems to be perfectly worked out.
Sometimes I ask myself to what extent is spontaneous improvisation?
I have his book 50-modern jazz guitar phrases.I like all these phrases.
I started going through it carefully.

It's all about posting a perfect minute on Instagram. These players are often very worked out. Impressive, but don't believe everything you see as a reflection of 'in the moment improv'

It's a different thing to playing live. I wouldn't think of anyone as a jazz guitarist unless they were also out there playing gigs and being in a situation that is often a little outside of the comfort zone and challenging rather than playing in your home studio. But I'm an old fart.

No idea about Eunson. He sounds good online. Chad LB can play. One thing does not necessarily preclude the other... it's just a separate skillset. The young pros now need to be able to work the social media thing too, so ....

And as you say - if you like what they are playing, why not learn from it?

**kris** · 01-08-2022, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

It's all about posting a perfect minute on Instagram. These players are often very worked out. Impressive, but don't believe everything you see as a reflection of 'in the moment improv'

It's a different thing to playing live. I wouldn't think of anyone as a jazz guitarist unless they were also out there playing gigs and being in a situation that is often a little outside of the comfort zone and challenging rather than playing in your home studio. But I'm an old fart.

No idea about Eunson. He sounds good online. Chad LB can play. One thing does not necessarily preclude the other... it's just a separate skillset. The young pros now need to be able to work the social media thing too, so ....

And as you say - if you like what they are playing, why not learn from it?

I'm an old fart with a modern look.

**Christian Miller** · 01-08-2022, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by kris

I'm an old fart with a modern look.

im a modern fart with an old look

**grahambop** · 01-08-2022, 10:46 AM

i’m a mouldy olde figge of a fart, looking older by the year.

**grahambop** · 01-08-2022, 10:52 AM

I actually watched a Tim Miller video yesterday and thought it was very interesting.

Nothing untoward happened to me afterwards, I was quite surprised.