Django Reinhardt vs Charlie Christian

[Hep To The Jive]

Both guitarists are mentioned as geniuses, and I feel like Django may have been more of a virtuoso in terms of dazzling technique. But to me CC style and approach works better for all things jazz: swing or bebop, jump blues, even rockabilly. I feel like when playing in a band with horns and a rhythm section, I'd rather use CC licks and ideas than Django's. Gypsy jazz in general is just a thing in itself, doesn't evolve or stretches out IMO.

So yeah, my vote goes to CC for how I can adopt it to my own style. But man, I do LOVE listening to Django's music!

[TOMMO]

Both guitarists are mentioned as geniuses, and I feel like Django may have been more of a virtuoso in terms of dazzling technique. But to me CC style and approach works better for all things jazz: swing or bebop, jump blues, even rockabilly. I feel like when playing in a band with horns and a rhythm section, I'd rather use CC licks and ideas than Django's. Gypsy jazz in general is just a thing in itself, doesn't evolve or stretches out IMO.

So yeah, my vote goes to CC for how I can adopt it to my own style. But man, I do LOVE listening to Django's music!

Well, you've said it all. Love me some Django but can't listen any longer than about an hour to the "La Pompe" rhythm before it gets on my nerves. We have an annual Django festival weekend here in town but I don't go because of that: three of those groups in one evening - sorry. We do have some fine sinti jazz guitarists in town and they do play at other places/events and I can enjoy them there.
Charlie? Daddy of all the jazz guitar players - his influence is still there in all the styles you mentioned.

[grahambop]

I really can't vote on this, to me both are equally great in their own way.

[destinytot]

Well, you've said it all. Love me some Django but can't listen any longer than about an hour to the "La Pompe" rhythm before it gets on my nerves.

An hour? Serious staying power!
Django for me though:

[TOMMO]

an hour? Serious staying power!

lol!

[Rob MacKillop]

Django was the best at gypsy jazz, Charlie the best at American jazz. Two very different things. Impossible to compare.

[destinytot]

These can be compared - and I think this kind of openness is wonderful:

[Stringswinger]

This is like choosing between Wes and Joe. Both are giants. I would give the nod to Django as he had more to say, but he also had way longer to say it.

I can listen to Django all day. Total genius.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I've listened to more Django than Charlie, so I doubt my opinion is qualified much to offer here. I will say I enjoy both, and I turn both off after a while, but that's because musically I like so many different flavors than I end up making a meal out of sampler-platters.

[Hep To The Jive]

This is like choosing between Wes and Joe. Both are giants. I would give the nod to Django as he had more to say, but he also had way longer to say it.

I can listen to Django all day. Total genius.

You know, I can listen to Django all day too, but somehow I never wanted to PLAY like him, if that makes sense. Like, I love the tunes, the tone, the improves... but if I want to transcribe a solo or learn a few licks CC feels like home. I dunno, maybe all that flash in Django style doesn't mesh with my personality.

[mr. beaumont]

Amazing players who left interesting legacies...

Django was the pinnacle of a music he essentially created...and in the 60ish years since his death, no one has matched him, yet he's spawned many clones, and few innovators in the style (ironic, as innovation was Django''s modus operandi!)

Charlie has been passed in skill, speed, you name it...yet he continues to inspire every person who takes up jazz guitar (or anyone who's worth a darn) because he played what he played so perfectly, with a swing matched by few if any.

Versus? There is no versus. But we'd all be sitting in the back with a banjo if it weren't for these cats.

[neatomic]

Versus? There is no versus. But we'd all be sitting in the back with a banjo if it weren't for these cats.

so?? haha

here's great string instrument historian howard alden...on banjo

and eddy davis tackling some monk

(both alden and davis have worked with woody allen on his soundtracks)

and then of course, louie A's great banjo man johnny st cyr!! who influenced everybody..django, cc etc

modern jazz guitar as we know it , owes much to banjo...evolution!!


cheers

[mr. beaumont]

Not gonna convince me on the banjo, man.

(But I do kinda want a plectrum banjo)

[neatomic]

Not gonna convince me on the banjo, man.

(But I do kinda want a plectrum banjo)

yeah im not tradin in my archtop either...

but it's importance in the evolution of stringed instruments (hot music/jazz) notwithstanding

cheers

[Stringswinger]

You know, I can listen to Django all day too, but somehow I never wanted to PLAY like him, if that makes sense. Like, I love the tunes, the tone, the improves... but if I want to transcribe a solo or learn a few licks CC feels like home. I dunno, maybe all that flash in Django style doesn't mesh with my personality.

Yep, my playing is way more rooted in CC than Django as well. Django's unique style has spawned a sub genre of jazz, though Django thought of himself as simply a jazz musician.

[destinytot]

yeah im not tradin in my archtop either...

but it's importance in the evolution of stringed instruments (hot music/jazz) notwithstanding

I wouldn't trade - but I'll take those vintage tunings.

[destinytot]

Django's needed today. He/she needn't play guitar.

Great lyrics (on-screen) - and perhaps a (not-so-quiet) correction of 'versus mindset':

[Thumpalumpacus]

You know, I can listen to Django all day too, but somehow I never wanted to PLAY like him, if that makes sense. Like, I love the tunes, the tone, the improves... but if I want to transcribe a solo or learn a few licks CC feels like home. I dunno, maybe all that flash in Django style doesn't mesh with my personality.

[Emphasis added -- Thump]

I completely understand that, I feel the same way about numerous players in many genres. I just want to play like myself, and every so often I manage exactly that!

[christianm77]

Django is so much more than the 'gypsy jazz' stereotype of his work. As a player in bands inspired by Django's, I kind of hate the term gypsy jazz.... but it is a convenient marketing label. Like Salsa.

(String band jazz wasn't just a French/Manouche thing either.... Musicians from all backgrounds were playing this music. I don't think Lang/Venuti were the first, let alone Django/Grappelli)

In my experience musicians from the actual Manouche/Romani tradition are much more open minded and just up for playing than the self defined 'gypsy jazz' guitarists.... And of course they eat everyone for breakfast in terms of sheer ability on their instruments!

Anyway.... In fact I personally prefer the American swing feel in jazz ... Django had great feel, but it was coming from a different place. But wow, what a virtuoso. I mean every time I hear him play it's jaw dropping.

Charlie Christian is for me the first modern jazz guitarist and as a result he is super important to me as that is pretty much the tradition I'm in. I am sad that people (non guitarists) seem less familiar with Charlie Christian than Django. They are equally great. CC probably invented rock guitar as well into the deal ;-)

But I give a lot of respect to the older guys ... Eddie Lang, Carl Kress, Dick McDonough, Allan Reuss, Lonnie Johnson, esp. Teddy Bunn...

[christianm77]

This is like choosing between Wes and Joe. Both are giants.

Actually that's a decision I would find easy. But I wouldn't necessarily see at as any objective judgement.

[TOMMO]

CC probably invented rock guitar as well into the deal ;-)

Would you mind if I'd throw T.Bone Walker into the mix here?

[christianm77]

Would you mind if I'd throw T.Bone Walker into the mix here?

Of course not :-)

[Stringswinger]

Django is so much more than the 'gypsy jazz' stereotype of his work. As a player in bands inspired by Django's, I kind of hate the term gypsy jazz.... but it is a convenient marketing label. Like Salsa.

(String band jazz wasn't just a French/Manouche thing either.... Musicians from all backgrounds were playing this music. I don't think Lang/Venuti were the first, let alone Django/Grappelli)

In my experience musicians from the actual Manouche/Romani tradition are much more open minded and just up for playing than the self defined 'gypsy jazz' guitarists.... And of course they eat everyone for breakfast in terms of sheer ability on their instruments!

Anyway.... In fact I personally prefer the American swing feel in jazz ... Django had great feel, but it was coming from a different place. But wow, what a virtuoso. I mean every time I hear him play it's jaw dropping.

Charlie Christian is for me the first modern jazz guitarist and as a result he is super important to me as that is pretty much the tradition I'm in. I am sad that people (non guitarists) seem less familiar with Charlie Christian than Django. They are equally great. CC probably invented rock guitar as well into the deal ;-)

But I give a lot of respect to the older guys ... Eddie Lang, Carl Kress, Dick McDonough, Allan Reuss, Lonnie Johnson, esp. Teddy Bunn...

Your post is spot on. The notion that Django was a "Gypsy Jazz" guitarist is not correct. Yes, he was a Gypsy and he played jazz, but he was just following the Lang/Venuti format to some degree. After hearing Goodman. he dropped the violin in favor of clarinet and moved his music to a way more modern place.

What is unique in post CC jazz is that Django continued to use an acoustic guitar as opposed to an electric (he did eventually amplify his acoustic guitar, but he never made the switch to an electric archtop). He also preferred the flat 4 rhythm (though he eventually abandoned "La Pompe" in favor of a Freddy Green style).

Django is a hero to his people (the Gypsies of Western Europe) and they have stuck to his sound and style, thus creating "Gypsy Jazz". Most are stuck in his 1930's style with violin and "La Pompe", but others like Bireli Lagrene use reeds and a more "Post war" Django style.

I have chosen to play Gypsy jazz with a modern American sound. I mostly use an electric archtop (the Gibson ES-175 is my weapon of choice) and mostly play with a reeds player (I like the clarinet way more than violin). My lines and phrasing are way more rooted in CC than Django, though I have studied Django and Gypsy picking and I do have a Selmer style guitar. I play what I hear and coming from the CC tradition and not the Django tradition, my style will always be more CC than Django. If I wanted to, I could probably change that, but why reinvent the wheel?

Deep down, I feel CC and Django are equals. Both were trailblazers in the history of jazz guitar. I would give a slight nod to Django if I had to make a choice as I think he was more developed (while both men left us too fast, CC truly had too little time to reach his full potential). Deep down I feel that Wes and JP are equals, but Wes' melodicism excites me more than JP's bop virtuosity does (and I adore JP's playing, make no mistake about that) so I would give a slight nod to Wes.

The truth is, I am grateful for all of the great jazz guitarists on whose shoulders I stand.

[TOMMO]

Of course not :-)

Heathen!!!

[christianm77]

Heathen!!!

I actually meant I wouldn't mind haha