What did you learn from Miles Davis?

[pamosmusic]

Yeah, for sure he could get pretty raucous, fast and intense if he wanted to. TBH as far as trumpeters go, I listen to Miles so much more than others, I should probably listen a bit more to others just to put him in perspective. But I also love the early fusion records, each one is really exploratory and unique in its way. If I listen to Miles it is just as much for the concept or mood he conveys on a record as it is his actual playing.

Oh yeah me too. If I want to listen to a trumpet player it's Clifford Brown all day every day. If I'm listening to Miles it's for VIBEZ.

[supersoul]

Miles... I like how he followed his heart and wasn't afraid of going where his muse took him. He was a tough dude but his playing could be incredibly tender. He didn't play a lot of notes, but the ones he played always mattered. He knew how to use dissonance and playing outside with consonance and playing inside. His tone was beautiful.

I don't think he had a bad period. People like to rag on him for his 80s comeback, but that's what I'm listening to the most right now.

[DC Cornelius]

Due respect, but it's not a "to me" thing ...

All due respect but Yes It is!!! I absolutely adore John Coltrane, Bill Evans, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea & hundreds of other jazz musicians, but I do not like listening to MD, whether he's had some influence on others or not!!! I don't like his playing.. I don't like his music. Why do some folk find it so hard to understand this?

[James W]

All due respect but Yes It is!!! I absolutely adore John Coltrane, Bill Evans, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea & hundreds of other jazz musicians, but I do not like listening to MD, whether he's had some influence on others or not!!! I don't like his playing.. I don't like his music. Why do some folk find it so hard to understand this?

Point repeatedly made, right.

We get it. Peter's point was that objectively speaking, Miles was deeply influential and important in jazz and other genres too. Why won't you acknowledge that?

[pamosmusic]

All due respect but Yes It is!!! I absolutely adore John Coltrane, Bill Evans, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea & hundreds of other jazz musicians, but I do not like listening to MD, whether he's had some influence on others or not!!! I don't like his playing.. I don't like his music. Why do some folk find it so hard to understand this?

My guy. Totally fine that you don't care for Miles Davis.

But what I said was "he was a key innovator in pretty much every major trend in the music."

And you said:

To you he obviously was. To me he was not!

So once again -- it is absolutely fine that you don't care for Miles Davis's playing, but unfortunately you don't get to choose the degree to which he was influential on the music. His name is basically synonymous with jazz. Ask a hundred non-musicians to name five jazzers and you'd hear "Miles Davis, Louis Armstrong, and ... um ... hold up ... OH Frank Sinatra, right?"

If you asked a hundred rock musicians who they were influenced by, his might be the only jazz musician's name you heard.

So I'm really not arguing with your personal preferences. You do you. But Miles will be standing right behind every improviser you ever listen to, from now until you depart this mortal plane. Like him or not.

[pamosmusic]

Why won't you acknowledge that?

The confusing part is that he did.

[James W]

The confusing part is that he did.

Oh yeah I see. He did... then apparently forgot that he did? Weird.

[grahambop]

All due respect but Yes It is!!! I absolutely adore John Coltrane, Bill Evans, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea & hundreds of other jazz musicians, but I do not like listening to MD, whether he's had some influence on others or not!!! I don't like his playing.. I don't like his music. Why do some folk find it so hard to understand this?

Seems odd to like all these guys who were on Miles’ albums and made the same music he did, but still not like Miles’ music.

[deacon Mark]

Learned some of his tunes and generally liked his cool period. Did not learn anything much from him otherwise except maybe how not to act as a responsible person in the public eye at times.

[wolflen]

Yep..Miles Lives..

there is the man the myth the music

I am guilty of wanting to know more about the personal lives of "celebrates"..but as often the case..I dont like what I find..and it may alter my appreciation
of their art talent presentation and all that.

To me the musician Miles is the epitome of Cool

His personal life..I dont care..that was for him to solve and have opinions about.

My Guitarist view..he chose guitar gods to be in his bands..he chose sax player gods..piano gods..the landscape of "jazz" would not be the same without his experimentation/innovations.

Kind of Blue..it changed "jazz" and created a tidal wave across all art forms that is still being felt to this day

and just a "what if" question..to those who dont like his music.. and if he called you to be in his band...??

[jameslovestal]

To you he obviously was. To me he was not! Don't sound so surprised & shocked that someone feels differently to you about something.
You love MD. He's been a major influence in your life. Great, enjoy & have fun.


Peace.


DC...

Saying one doesn't like a musician's music is an opinion. Saying a musician like MD wasn't an innovator isn't an opinion. It just shows a lack of understanding of the history of jazz.

[DC Cornelius]

Due respect, but it's not a "to me" thing ...

All due respect but Yes It is!!! I absolutely adore John Coltrane, Bill Evans, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea & hundreds of other jazz musicians, but I do not like listening to MD, whether he's had some influence on others or not!!! I don't like his playing.. I don't like his music. Why do some folk find it so hard to understand this?

[DC Cornelius]

Saying a musician like MD wasn't an innovator isn't an opinion.

I never said that! Where did i say he wasn't an innovator?

[pamosmusic]

I never said that! Where did i say he wasn't an innovator?

Take a breath. Go back and read your posts. First of all, you just reposted one you'd already posted.

Then this:

I said ...

he was a key innovator in pretty much every major trend in the music.

You quoted that and replied:

To you he obviously was. To me he was not!

Perhaps you mis-spoke?

[DC Cornelius]

Take a breath. Go back and read your posts. First of all, you just reposted one you'd already posted.

Then this:

I said ...



You quoted that and replied:



Perhaps you mis-spoke?

'To me personally' he wasn't.... two different things! cleary he was to many, I've never argued that in this thread

[pamosmusic]

'To me personally' he wasn't.... two different things! cleary he was to many, I've never argued that in this thread

Okay well then you were arguing with nobody, because I don’t think anyone said he was influential to you personally. They’re saying he was influential broadly.

Because those are two different things and, once again, what I said was:

he was a key innovator in pretty much every major trend in the music.

And it sounds like you dont have much quibble with that.

[DC Cornelius]

First of all, you just reposted one you'd already posted.

Yes I did. Thanks for pointing it out- My apologies. Don't know what happened there??? Oh well

[DC Cornelius]

because I don’t think anyone said he was influential to you personally.

You're right, no one said that- I didn't suggest anyone did...

They’re saying he was influential broadly.

I know they are saying he was influential broadly. I get that....

[cmajor9]

In addition to the points others have made:

- that silence can be as important as sound

- the power of melody and phrasing

the thing I got from Miles is that, even when you know about music theory, history, style,
someone can come along and make music that is so, mysterious, so “magic”,
so different from what was before,
that it can amaze you.

[kris]

DC Cornelius - are you a trumpet player?

[DC Cornelius]

DC Cornelius - are you a trumpet player?

No, I'm not. Don't think I've ever held one let alone tried to play one

[Peter C]

What did one learn from Miles?

It's curious.

Indirectly, I suppose, when I was a teen wailing on rock guitar back in the day, I realised that when you put a note out there, hanging onto and bending it, it had to "mean" something, because you were loud, like a horn. I wasn't consciously listening to Miles Davis at that time, but Jimi Hendrix was, and I had listened to a lot of Hendrix, who happened to dig Miles...

Nowadays, I just listen to his playing and appreciate his unique voice and phrasing, mostly the pre-electric era. It's atmospheric and engaging; you have to listen.

[wolflen]

No, I'm not. Don't think I've ever held one let alone tried to play one

DC C..

I just noticed your new here..welcome

You have landed on a hot topic..as you can see

Miles his playing and compositions are liked by many of us on this site.

Now some people come to this site just to see what is going on..they may not even be musicians but join in on some of the topics..

So are you a guitarist? if your willing please give us a brief history of your musical journey so we can know you better.

[Cunamara]

So you think there's something wrong with my hearing because I don't like Davis??? You obviously think he was something special, I don't- It's called personal taste= live with it!! without the insults if you don't mind, I'd appreciate it- thanks.

Easy, man. It was a mild ribbing at most.


You must understand that you very much stand out from the crowd by thinking Miles Davis was useless as a jazz influence, at least as far as your own development is concerned. Given that he was one of the founding drivers of about six different movements in jazz, it is surprising to read that from someone. He played with Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie at the start of his career all the way up to John Scofield and Mike Stern towards the end of his career. And in between with Monk, Bill Evans, John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, Wayne Shorter, Tony Williams, John McLaughlin, Joe Zawinal, etc. etc.- just to name a few in 30 seconds. Most of the titans of jazz worked for him at some point during their careers. Every one of those players has publicly saluted the contribution Miles made to their musical abilities. If any of those players were an influence on you, some of that came from Miles.

Most recently, one of the things I've been paying attention to with Miles is how to swing with articulation of the notes on the beat rather than rhythmic effects.

[Cunamara]

corollary thread: What You Didn’t Learn From Miles Davis.

First Post: “what is a butter note.”

LOL! I don't think Herbie ever figured out what that meant, either. I've always wondered if Miles wanted to hear less chord tones and more upper extensions and tensions.