Official Barry Harris Thread

[setemupjoe]

Always like the sound of that sub.

Yeah I think thing to bear in mind is the function of a dim7 chord is to link one chord to another.

Exactly. We all get caught up in thinking of chords vertically. Meaning what notes do what to each chord. When we do this we often forget chords exist in a horizontal environment. They are in motion, coming from somewhere on the way to somewhere else. The #IIdim makes an excellent movement from IImi to I6th chord, a very well used Barry Harris move. The strength of the resolution is what makes it work, rather than thinking of how the diminished chord works in isolation with the V7 chord. You have to put the chord in context of the progression it’s in.

[A. Kingstone]

"Why doesn't anyone play the flat three diminished anymore?"

- Barry

[christianm77]

"Why doesn't anyone play the flat three diminished anymore?"

- Barry

According to Wikipedia it’s hardly used in jazz

[pcjazz]

"Why doesn't anyone play the flat three diminished anymore?"

- Barry

Apparently because they are too busy playing the sharp two diminished.

[rintincop]

C dim major 7th resolving to Cmaj7 , "Bali Hai" for example, uses that biii diminished sound. Also, "The hills are alive, with the sound of music."
F to Fdim maj7

[setemupjoe]

C dim major 7th resolving to Cmaj7 , "Bali Hai" for example, uses that biii diminished sound.

I’ll throw Spring is Here into that group as well.

[christianm77]

Am I the only person who thinks of the I/bIII/#IVo/VI dim 7 as the blues chord? It harmonises the most common melodic embellishing blue notes b3/b5 so you can always put it in there.

[Petimar]

From the Diminished (3rd of Dominant - A7 / C#o ) :
Barry will BORROW (related Dominants - C Eb Gb [A) / RESOLVE (back to diminished) / REPEAT minor 3rd away)

BORROW
RESOLVE
REPEAT

*

---------------

If Barry's 7b5o Scale (or 7o Scale) is considered we have all 3 diminished chords to play/move on our A7 fakebook chord.


A7

Diminished Built On Third Of A7 - C# E G Bb (Enharmonic always)

Minor Sixth Diminished On The Fifth & Tri-tones Minor - Em6o & Bbm6o - related diminished = Ao Co Ebo Gbo

A7o & A7b5o Scales - related diminished = B D F Ab


Hope That Helps

*
PS: In the BORROWING section (don't have a book on hand for page #'s)

Alan, I assume you mean your book, or is this one of the Barry Harris Workshop books?

[A. Kingstone]

Alan, I assume you mean your book, or is this one of the Barry Harris Workshop books?

Yes Barry and my book regarding harmony for guitar. Sorry I didn't see your question sooner.

I was visiting Howard Rees who produced the Workshop Videos and books and asked him about the first couple of bars of Embraceable You which I've been working in different keys. He asked me if I knew why Barry plays Embraceable You in his key of choice: I didn't.

Howard told me that Barry was playing the Village Vanguard and Tony Bennett was there and sat in, suggested Embraceable You in 'F' and Barry has played it in 'F' ever since. It sits nicely on guitar.

[tamirgal]

Yes Barry and my book regarding harmony for guitar. Sorry I didn't see your question sooner.

I was visiting Howard Rees who produced the Workshop Videos and books and asked him about the first couple of bars of Embraceable You which I've been working in different keys. He asked me if I knew why Barry plays Embraceable You in his key of choice: I didn't.

Howard told me that Barry was playing the Village Vanguard and Tony Bennett was there and sat in, suggested Embraceable You in 'F' and Barry has played it in 'F' ever since. It sits nicely on guitar.

Joe Alterman's Blog: Tony Bennett at the Village Vanguard

[A. Kingstone]

Joe Alterman's Blog: Tony Bennett at the Village Vanguard

Thank you so much! That is lovely.

Alan

[rintincop]

Regarding so called 8 7 6 phrases,
C7 would be different than C6

see below

[joe2758]

8 #2 3 7
7 b7 #5 6
6 3 4 #4 5

I'm not sure if those work out rhythmically. I didn't play it, but just looking at it here, here's my thoughts:

For the 8 phrase I would want one that started on the down beat and ended on 7 on a down beat
for the 7 it would start on down beat and end on 6 on the upbeat
6 would start on an upbeat and end on a downbeat on 5

maybe try that?

[matt.guitarteacher]

Spent several weeks working through "the basics " from the DVD , and I would have to say that it's a ton of material. everything I've done so far has been dominant , and again, that's a lot by itself.

I'm just trying to imagine at what point of being able to actually PLAY the stuff he has outlined in his material, which I would think is months and years worth of work .....at what point am I going to actually take the time to develop new extrapolations like 876? I don't really have a problem with people doing whatever, but I'm trying to understand the mindset . Are you guys PLAYING all of the basic material like a boss already?

Also, having never looked at it at ALL, I would wonder if maybe the simplest way to reverse engineer 876 type lines wouldn't be simply to play 5432 super impositions of other chords. The important minor' s 5432 over dominant is 2176 of the dominant colored for example? Am I doing that correctly? Anyway, you could reverse engineer 876 basically for major, minor or dominant by subbing in the other types in the same way.

Anyway, that's already its own thing , and somewhat extra credit in terms of what Harris looks at as being "basic". Dominant first then this other stuff . Right?

Again, I'm not trying to criticize, just curious, having spent a lot of time with this personally lately.

[Tal_175]

Spent several weeks working through "the basics " from the DVD , and I would have to say that it's a ton of material. everything I've done so far has been dominant , and again, that's a lot by itself.

I'm just trying to imagine at what point of being able to actually PLAY the stuff he has outlined in his material, which I would think is months and years worth of work .....at what point am I going to actually take the time to develop new extrapolations like 876? I don't really have a problem with people doing whatever, but I'm trying to understand the mindset . Are you guys PLAYING all of the basic material like a boss already?

Also, having never looked at it at ALL, I would wonder if maybe the simplest way to reverse engineer 876 type lines wouldn't be simply to play 5432 super impositions of other chords. The important minor' s 5432 over dominant is 2176 of the dominant colored for example? Am I doing that correctly?

Anyway, that's already its own thing , and somewhat extra credit in terms of what Harris looks at as being "basic". Dominant first then this other stuff . Right?

Again, I'm not trying to criticize, just curious, having spent a lot of time with this personally lately.

I'm not saying this because Christian is a forum member. I don't know him personally and I have no stake in the success of his videos. I'm saying it because I think it's true. This video is the best material I've seen about how to shred BH stuff and get them in your playing (as a supplement to the original BH content). Simplified in a very purposeful way. There is also a worksheet somewhere for the stuff he plays I think:

[joe2758]

Spent several weeks working through "the basics " from the DVD , and I would have to say that it's a ton of material. everything I've done so far has been dominant , and again, that's a lot by itself.

I'm just trying to imagine at what point of being able to actually PLAY the stuff he has outlined in his material, which I would think is months and years worth of work .....at what point am I going to actually take the time to develop new extrapolations like 876? I don't really have a problem with people doing whatever, but I'm trying to understand the mindset . Are you guys PLAYING all of the basic material like a boss already?

Also, having never looked at it at ALL, I would wonder if maybe the simplest way to reverse engineer 876 type lines wouldn't be simply to play 5432 super impositions of other chords. The important minor' s 5432 over dominant is 2176 of the dominant colored for example? Am I doing that correctly? Anyway, you could reverse engineer 876 basically for major, minor or dominant by subbing in the other types in the same way.

Anyway, that's already its own thing , and somewhat extra credit in terms of what Harris looks at as being "basic". Dominant first then this other stuff . Right?

Again, I'm not trying to criticize, just curious, having spent a lot of time with this personally lately.

I'm not 100% what you're saying here, is this a rhetorical question? I've been shedding The Barry Harris ABCs for about 4 years, and I like to put my work to use by creating lines. I don't think students need to graduate from the ABCs before they can create stuff. You seem to have pretty strong opinions for someone new to the stuff

[matt.guitarteacher]

Ok. Sorry. TLDNR:

Don't G minor 5432 lines over C7 = "2876" C7 -type lines?

And if so, isn't there already somewhat of a template for 876? And can't you do the same for other chord types?

[joe2758]

Ok. Sorry. TLDNR:

Don't G minor 5432 lines over C7 = "2876" C7 -type lines?

And if so, isn't there already somewhat of a template for 876? And can't you do the same for other chord types?

Let's check it out (disclaimer i don't have a guitar handy)
Our 1/8 phrase would be: CGABb starting on the upbeat ending on downbeat
that makes our 7 line- BbDF#A that works perfectly (A on the upbeat)
makes our 6 line- AGbGG#A. If we adjust this one phrase to land on G we could run through the whole thing seamlessly.

Cool idea!

[joe2758]

your alternate 2 phrase would be: DF#GCBb which is great. I'll be practicing these tonight!

[joe2758]

Wait i just realized something. There is an alternate 2 phrase in the book. which is 2 b7 7 1. If we use this for the 6th phrase (AF F# G) we land perfectly on the G and can go right into the 5 phrase. wow

Matt, you can lead the group

[matt.guitarteacher]

Wait i just realized something. There is an alternate 2 phrase in the book. which is 2 b7 7 1. If we use this for the 6th phrase (AF F# G) we land perfectly on the G and can go right into the 5 phrase. wow

Matt, you can lead the group

Ha. Yeah. Thanks. :-)

It's a very Harris -type approach though honestly IMO. To me it would be akin to "What are the 5432 patterns for half diminished?". The answer for him with half diminished is always "play dominant" I guess? Anyway, more mileage out of less material is very much his thing. Reg's is much the same but in different ways.

[joe2758]

Yeah for sure I play all these in multiple applications, but it's just crazy how it perfectly fits with the vanilla version

[rintincop]

I'm not sure if those work out rhythmically. I didn't play it, but just looking at it here, here's my thoughts:
For the 8 phrase I would want one that started on the down beat and ended on 7 on a down beat
for the 7 it would start on down beat and end on 6 on the upbeat
6 would start on an upbeat and end on a downbeat on 5, maybe try that?

The chord tones of C6 should be on the "on" beats ( C E G A)
the non-chord tones (passing tones) should be on the "off" beats ( 2 4 b6 7 )

8 on beat
7 off
6 on
b6 off
5 on
4 off
3 on
2 off
1 on
---------

Yes, C7 would be different than C6

[setemupjoe]

The chord tones of C6 should be on the "on" beats ( C E G A)
the non-chord tones (passing tones) should be on the "off" beats ( 2 4 b6 7 )

8 on beat
7 off
6 on
b6 off
5 on
4 off
3 on
2 off
1 on
---------

8 #2 3 7
7 b7 #5 6

6 3 4 #4 5 (many contenders for 6)

Wouldn’t the 7 b7 #5 6 line place the b7 on the beat? If you’re thinking C6 that may not be what you’d want. I usually play that line as
7 5 #5 6

[Tal_175]

If you transpose the original 5 4 3 2 so all of 5 4 3 2 are 1's, you get (and unpivot them when necessary):
5 (maj): 1 3 4 7 5 6
4 (maj): 1 6 #6 7
3 (min): 1 3 5 7
2 (min): 1 6 b7 7 1

So you get two maj7 phrases and two min7 phrases in 5432.

Transposing back to 8 7 6:
8 (maj): 8 6 #6 7 (choosing the 2nd maj7 phrase)
7 (min): 7 2 4 6 (first min7 phrase) (can be pivoted)
6 (min): 6 4 5 #5 6 (second min7 phrase)