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Hi fellas, coming from blues, rock and flamenco playing and starting to really dig jazz/bebop guitar Im wondering me what for you guys mean to have jazz vocabulary, is something that I see a lot on YT videos, I come from Spain and when they say vocabulary Im not sure if they mean the tunes/standards, melodies, heads, licks, enclosures, chord tones...everything??
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11-08-2025 04:35 PM
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At this point, you should think of it as licks. It’s the musical phrases that recur over and over again.
Eventually you can manipulate them in your own playing, but at the start learn Billie’s Bounce, Ornithology or a Charlie Christian solo then dissect, analyze and manipulate 2-4 bar phrases and use them in other songs.
This is the method everyone worth listening to used. A few may have learned it on the bandstand, many more learned it from recordings.
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Melodies, heads, and licks.
All the smaller stuff (you mention enclosures etc) comes from that.
But they’re talking about ideas the sound like jazz. The way that you can tell what region of Spain someone is from based on how they speak. We can tell if someone is a jazzer or a rock dude or if they’re into bebop or trad jazz based on the specific ideas they employ most readily
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Good point.
It's like a thick jazz accent. With some players, whatever they play sounds like jazz.
But what does that mean? Hard to put into words. Somehow has a combination of harmony, melody and rhythm that is associated with jazz.
Time honored way to develop it is to copy others. In course of that, you assilimilate the style and then, hopefully, you can do it on your own.
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OK cool, I know how to improvise over chords and changes decently, but more in a fusion way than proper bebop, Im fluent using some altered, lydian doninant scales, some major triads, pentatonics... over songs like Sowhat, Impressions, Cantaloupe, Chamaleon, Chicken...and some decent chord tone improv over all the things you are, summertime, leaves... but I got kinda stuck, if I follow the fusiony way is like easier, I can play really fast but you dont say much if that make sense but if I want to move into Parker, Powell, Peterson, Wes... then I get a bit confused, not sure if start over playing slow and singing licks or try to develop enclosures, real bebop is difficult IMO, like another mindset, Parker solos are perfect etudes from Bach, Mozart, Debussy but with an crazy awesome swing feel LOL
Last edited by Basshead; 11-09-2025 at 05:49 AM.
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Singing licks and using enclosures are both good ideas.
Originally Posted by Basshead
I started a thread on this topic which might interest you.
Learning and Varying Vocabulary, Licks & Lines
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Thanks James, btw there is an old book call Charlie Parker for guitar, any good experience with that or just smoke?
Is there any particular solo from Charlie Christian, Kenny Burrel or similar that you think is a good start and kinda of a must? maybe based on a BB blues, Rhythm changes, all the things you are...?
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Vocabulary in jazz doesn't apply only to single lines. Harmonic devices, substitutions, and reharmonizations found in the standards are also integral to the vocabulary of straight-ahead jazz. There is an emphasis on voice-leading that you don't see as much in popular music, perhaps not even the later styles of jazz (fusion, non-functional, modal jazz).
The composers of the standards were classically trained, and they wrote the harmonies with orchestral accompaniment in mind. Even though chord symbols appear on the lead sheets, playing them as intended reveals moving inner lines and bass motion. It's almost like the chord symbols are just a rough sketch of these lines. That's why there is a lot of emphasis on guide-tone lines in this style of jazz, both melodically and harmonically. Good compers like Ed Bickert are known for harmonizing these lines as counter melodies.
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This is all true. Originally Posted by Tal_175
Also I think if someone says to me “hey man you sound nice but I think you need some more vocabulary,” they’re probably talking about idiomatic single note lines.
Again … I’d still agree with everything you’re saying up there. You’re describing an important context to the idiomatic single note lines that is easy to miss if you’re just learning them quick and moving on.
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I was responding to the last sentence of the original post. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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The following occurred to me.
It seems to me that a very basic skill would be to sing (or at least play) a jazzy sounding lick at a slow speed over a simple harmony. Not just one you copied, but one you make up.
So, for example, can you play something that sounds like jazz over a ii V iii VI at, at least, a slow tempo?
If you can do that, then the path is clear. Remember the good line. Work on getting more good lines, try a more complicated harmony, work on chops, whatever.
But, if you can't do it, even simply and slowly -- that your stuff doesn't come out sounding like "jazz" (and mine doesn't) what then?
My thread on "giving up" was precipitated by this situation.
Did I have to give up? Maybe not. With a good teacher and a little more discipline, who knows?
But I'm describing a kind of milestone. Once you can sound jazzy in the simplest situation, you're over a kind of hump.
To give an example of the kind of jazzy sound I'm talking about, I'll offer this: just about anything Mr. Beaumont (our forum colleague) has posted. He always gets the sort of sound I'm thinking about and he always sounds great. No disrespect to any of the other very accomplished players on here.
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This is the only one video I got playing real jazz, all the things you are, comping, chord melody-ish and some improv, video quality is rubbish, insta destroyed the video when I shared the live stream cause I did not have some settings correctly but you can hear my jazz vocabulary, cheers.
Instagram
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I don't have that particular book but I have one called "50 Essential Bebop Heads Arranged for Guitar". Originally Posted by Basshead
The thing about these kinds of books is that the TAB portion often doesn't account for slurring so the TAB / fingering becomes sort of unusable unless all you care about is hitting the notes (those can be questionable as well).
By the time you're done making adjustments / corrections, you might as well have just transcibed the head yourself.
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Thanks fellas, I love Hal Galper btw, such a wise man, great videos and yeah lets focus this week on Charlie Christian and some of those small licks, sing those, different keys...nice homework.
Lester Young is one of my favs, great feel!
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Based on this arrangement, composed bridge or improvised bridge? Originally Posted by brent.h
I say improvised because well, it's different at the top and bottom of the tune. But I have a lead sheet with something else written in. Anyone call this? What do you play at the bridge?
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Im learning this solo, really nice bluesy stuff, Ima try to find a F blues too.
Btw you guys practice any Bach stuff for single note dexterity?
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Yes. Inspired by Adam Rogers I have memorised the sixth movement of Bach's first partita for solo violin. Originally Posted by Basshead
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Thanks Brent but I think I can handle it
is all based in the same chord boxes as you mention, the swing feel and phrasing are the important things IMO. Ima not memorize a whole solo for now but I like to play and sing small bits of it in different keys and try to start using them in my flamenco/bluesy compositions.
But if you want something nuts, lets go hardcore with this one, probably the best bebop improv ever
but you are right that its better to start with CC and then move slowly to Wes or Parker, I spent too much time with the whole chord scale scam, which is ok for some things, but this is a completely different minset, more chord tone based, small clear phrases, bluesy vibes, perfect!
Last edited by Basshead; 11-10-2025 at 05:57 PM.
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The difference between minor key Bach and minor key bebop is that you go to the major 6th of the minor chord after the end of the line. Originally Posted by James W
(I'm only half joking)
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I do Parker heads for dexterity.
Classical music, I never really listen to it, let alone want to dedicate time to learning it.
That’s just me, you should play what moves you.
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Vocabulary is generally used in the sense of soloing material. Originally Posted by Basshead
As to what it is - man, that's a big question. In a sane world, we'd all start with licks and build our knowledge from there. That's the best way to learn how the music goes, even if we don't end up there. It's the same for blues or rock, no? (Don't know about Flamenco, but it would't surprise me.)
However a lot of people seem to start conceptually with scales and arpeggios and so on.
The thing is jazz lines are largely built from scales, arpeggios and passing tones etc, so what's the difference? Surprisingly little sometimes. Hank Mobley can go straight down the harmonic minor scale and it can sound like the hippest jazz you ever heard.
So in a way it's the breathing of life into those devices. Listening and copying is key. Analysis - sure, but the musicality and swing is the main thing.
So I kind of feel jazz vocabulary is rhythm expressed in notes. I suppose it's true for many things, it's the feel of jazz that breathes life into otherwise mundane musical materials.
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BH single note also gives you a framework to generate vocab. In addition to the explicit vocab sources mentioned above.
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Do you play Dexterity for dexterity? Ahahahahahahahahhaha Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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I would strongly advise working on Charlie Christian etc first. Originally Posted by Strat-itis
It's kind of hard to apply to the guitar at first. You need to have a really good command of the neck compared to most guitarists. On keys its much less of an issue.
I also don't think it works without input from the music itself, be it records or going to the workshop with Barry giving you the lines - so I'd start with licks.
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Ding ding ding Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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