Learning and Varying Vocabulary, Licks & Lines

[James W]

So firstly, what ways do people like to go about collecting vocab, licks and lines? And, how do we memorise them? Secondly, how do we go about varying them?

I'm throwing this out there because I'm interested in what ideas people might have. Not that I don't have ideas myself, but I do feel somewhat lacking in this department i.e. I'm not sure my repertory of vocab licks and lines is as big or as effective as it could be.

I do happen to have some ideas for varying these things. I wrote this down from, if memory serves, something Cecil Alexander wrote on either his facebook or instagram -

LICKS
1) Sing them.
2) Figure out/play in context of tune.
3) Vary them - a) rhythmically b) harmonically c) melodically.
4) Alter contour.
5) Improvise using the concept of the lick.

Another thing I remember, from a lesson with Joel Bell, is to take a particular rhythm and just improvise the pitches - or, take a cell and stick to playing the cell, but improvise before and after the cell.

Huge topic.

[pamosmusic]

So firstly, what ways do people like to go about collecting vocab, licks and lines? And, how do we memorise them? Secondly, how do we go about varying them?

I'm throwing this out there because I'm interested in what ideas people might have. Not that I don't have ideas myself, but I do feel somewhat lacking in this department i.e. I'm not sure my repertory of vocab licks and lines is as big or as effective as it could be.

I do happen to have some ideas for varying these things. I wrote this down from, if memory serves, something Cecil Alexander wrote on either his facebook or instagram -

LICKS
1) Sing them.
2) Figure out/play in context of tune.
3) Vary them - a) rhythmically b) harmonically c) melodically.
4) Alter contour.
5) Improvise using the concept of the lick.

Another thing I remember, from a lesson with Joel Bell, is to take a particular rhythm and just improvise the pitches - or, take a cell and stick to playing the cell, but improvise before and after the cell.

Huge topic.

Oh awesome thread.

These are all good ideas too.

Heres what I do and have students do.

1. Sing it along with the recording a lot.

2. Pick a good left hand fingering and then *work out and write down the picking*

3. Move it around into different keys on the same string set.

4. Move it onto different string sets, keeping the same number of notes on each string. That seems complicated but usually if you just focus on the underlying structures you’re good to go. So if you have a Cm triad hiding in there and you’re playing three strings, one note per string, then you’ll want to do that on other strings. That means that the picking you work out will transfer onto the other fingerings without alteration.

5. Learn to use the lick on other chord types. I have some little formulas on that, but they’re pretty standard stuff.

As far as varying them goes — use the whole thing, use part, use the other part, repeat notes, rearrange the order of the parts, add little approach notes, lengthen rhythms.

[GuyBoden]

I play a short phrase I like over songs/progressions etc, everyday for a month (Obsessively).

After a month I begin to know the phrase intuitively.

EDIT: If I try to learn too much stuff at once, I never remembered any of it.

[pamosmusic]

I would also say, I never really look for stuff to come out in my playing. I play with stuff until I’m bored or want out and then things turn up in unpredictable ways down the line when I’ve stopped looking for it.

Focusing on a broad category for a while is helpful though. All minor licks for a month. Transcribing all Grant Green for as long as i can. Spending a month on licks from Half Nelson. Whatever. That always tends to be really helpful for me.

[Christian Miller]

So firstly, what ways do people like to go about collecting vocab, licks and lines? And, how do we memorise them? Secondly, how do we go about varying them?

I'm throwing this out there because I'm interested in what ideas people might have. Not that I don't have ideas myself, but I do feel somewhat lacking in this department i.e. I'm not sure my repertory of vocab licks and lines is as big or as effective as it could be.

not sure that the size of one's vocabulary is as important as how many uses you have for something. At least that's what I tell myself lol.

Variation on a line (ideas off the top of my head)
1) Transposition to all keys/practical positions
2) Use in original harmonic context on a tune (for example a D-7 G7 line on every II V in a tune)
3) Use in a a different harmonic context in a tune (for example a D-7 G7 line on a B-7b5 E7 or Ab-7 Eb7)
4) Change the starting beat - either by shifting the whole thing, or by adding or taking away a note
5) Change the resolving beat - the same way
6) Alter the rhythm more radically.
7) Change the position within the prevailing scale/tonality, perhaps sequencing it through the scale
8) Change the prevailing modality of the lick through parallel alteration. For example, we change the Dm like to a D7 line, or a Dmaj7 line.

Give us a line!

[pamosmusic]

Give us a line!

+1

[AllanAllen]

I learned a handful of Parker heads and as I’m soloing I try to sound like that. When I think of it. I just try for notes around the ones he used, or the flow of a bar.

It’s not worked out and it’s not analyzed. But I didn’t work out and analyze things when I played rock music and it sounded like rock, I just learned a bunch of covers and ripped them off.

So I try to do the same with jazz. The Charlie Parker heads help a lot.

[James W]

Thanks for the great replies! Lots to be getting on with...

Give us a line!

Here is a II-V-I in A flat, from Andreas Oberg playing ATTYA (you can ignore the rest of it) -

[wolflen]

the variations

Licks..play them in reverse - a flat five above and below..a minor third above and below-same with P4 and P5 licks.

incorporate melodic patterns in well known lines..this is where you "experiment"..this is the fun part! Try this with Blue Monk.

[Mick-7]

Thanks for the great replies! Lots to be getting on with...



Here is a II-V-I in A flat, from Andreas Oberg playing ATTYA (you can ignore the rest of it) -

I wouldn't call that a lick: Bbm9 arpeggio >> Diminished scale >> Ab^9 (Cm7) arpeggio.

[AllanAllen]

For learning Charlie Parker phrases nothing beats concentrated listening to the recordings (slowed down IMHO), but the Thomas Owens dissertation is the best on the subject of Charlie Parker Phrases.

Download FREE here:
Charlie Parker Dissertation Volume I Thomas Owens 1974 : Thomas Owens : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Reading 400 pages of someone else's notes won't get the music under your fingers and into your head. I'd rather read Sci-Fi/Fantasty novels or comic books before I go to bed.

[pamosmusic]

I wouldn't call that a lick: Bbm9 arpeggio >> Diminished scale >> Ab^9 (Cm7) arpeggio.

wtf?

[Mick-7]

wtf?

I mean, if you want to call: (Eb)-Db-F-Ab-C-Bb over Bbm7, an Eb half/whole dim scale over Eb7, and a Cm7 arpeggio over Ab^7, a lick, go ahead, but I don't find it helpful.

[James W]

I mean, if you want to call: (Eb)-Db-F-Ab-C-Bb over Bbm7, an Eb half/whole dim scale over Eb7, and a Cm7 arpeggio over Ab^7, a lick, go ahead, but I don't find it helpful.

Christian asked for a line not a lick.

[pamosmusic]

I mean, if you want to call: (Eb)-Db-F-Ab-C-Bb over Bbm7, an Eb half/whole dim scale over Eb7, and a Cm7 arpeggio over Ab^7, a lick, go ahead, but I don't find it helpful.

Well yeah Mick. What do you think a lick is? It’s not really meant to say anything about the content of the passage itself.

That’s like if I tell you I think the word “elegant” is cool and you say

“elegant” isn’t a word, it’s a series of syllables meant to represent the feeling of grace, timeless understated style. You can call it a word by I don’t find that useful.

Yes lots of wasted posts debating the difference between a lick and a line and vocabulary or whatever. But let’s stipulate that lick is just a word people use to describe a nice, recyclable bit of vocabulary.** So rather than quibbling over this whole thing, maybe just say what you’d do with the vocabulary.

Lord almighty this place is silly sometimes

** if the passage over the Bbm7 doesn’t qualify as a “lick” I don’t know what possibly could. It’s “The Honeysuckle Rose.”

EDIT: the passage over Ab and Db is a classic bebop-ism too. Paging Christian on that one

[Christian Miller]

Thanks for the great replies! Lots to be getting on with...



Here is a II-V-I in A flat, from Andreas Oberg playing ATTYA (you can ignore the rest of it) -

Quite long, but ok. If I have any time looking after kids I’ll have a play with it.

Starts with the honeysuckle motif, altered scale down then chord on the third. The push is nice.

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[Christian Miller]

Well yeah Mick. What do you think a lick is? It’s not really meant to say anything about the content of the passage itself.

That’s like if I tell you I think the word “elegant” is cool and you say

“elegant” isn’t a word, it’s a series of syllables meant to represent the feeling of grace, timeless understated style. You can call it a word by I don’t find that useful.

Yes lots of wasted posts debating the difference between a lick and a line and vocabulary or whatever. But let’s stipulate that lick is just a word people use to describe a nice, recyclable bit of vocabulary.** So rather than quibbling over this whole thing, maybe just say what you’d do with the vocabulary.

Lord almighty this place is silly sometimes

** if the passage over the Bbm7 doesn’t qualify as a “lick” I don’t know what possibly could. It’s “The Honeysuckle Rose.”

EDIT: the passage over Ab and Db is a classic bebop-ism too. Paging Christian on that one

I’m snipping that bit at the end off because it’s too long already

On the whole I tend to work with smaller bits of material, maybe a bar or two.

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[pamosmusic]

I’m snipping that bit at the end off because it’s too long already.


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Can you think of where it’s from?

It really gives me Groovin High vibes but it’s not

[rpjazzguitar]

I have nothing to recommend to others.

Here's why.

Most of the effort I've put in over the years to learn licks has been wasted time. Licks rarely stick in my head. Endless repetition helps less than it should. I've read through lick books repeatedly and got nothing from the effort.

The handful of licks I do know, mostly I acquired as follows. First off, the lick was usually something I could hear immediately. I usually heard it, live, while watching another guitarist play it. So, I could hear it in context and see how it was played. But, that doesn't always work. Tbh, it rarely works, but it has worked now and then.

Some sounds forced their way into my brain instantly (e.g. lydian dominant). Others, never.

A few licks came from heads of tunes that, for some reason, stuck in my mind.

Some stuff I play may sound like a lick, but usually it's not planned or organized.

I do repeat myself in solos too much. More like well worn ruts in my playing than licks, a lot of the time.

All that said, I can scat a better solo than I can play. When my playing catches up to my scatting, I figure I'll need more licks. Not there yet.

I heard a story that one of the Brecker brothers would write a lick down, then practice it for a year. When it was ready, it was burning.

Oh ... lately I've been using moving sixths I learned about 60 years ago from George Harrison's She's A Woman solo. Does that count?

[wolflen]

I have nothing to recommend to others.



Oh ... lately I've been using moving sixths I learned about 60 years ago from George Harrison's She's A Woman solo. Does that count?

RP...it ALL counts..this is how we learn... Ahhh--Harrison.."...with every mistake we must surely be learning.."

[rpjazzguitar]

RP...it ALL counts..this is how we learn... Ahhh--Harrison.."...with every mistake we must surely be learning.."

'

And some praise for Harrison. Time and time again, he crafted parts so perfect that you can't imagine the tune without them.

[Christian Miller]

Can you think of where it’s from?

It really gives me Groovin High vibes but it’s not

Steeplechase maybe?


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[pauln]

So firstly, what ways do people like to go about collecting vocab, licks and lines? And, how do we memorise them? Secondly, how do we go about varying them?

Vocabulary, licks, and lines are not independent things; they must be related to contexts (specific tunes). In other words, there is really no such thing as pure chord scale theory. A particular line that sounds good over a particular chord in one tune's harmonic context may not sound good in another tune - even if the same line is played over the same chord. This lack of complete, coherent, and consistent successful application across seemingly identical musical situations becomes even more problematic when playing lines across chord changes or playing lines through chord sequences (especially when those chord sequences are imposed to substitute for a simpler couple of measures of a tune's progression).
So what's being initially collected is vocabulary and the contexts within which it sounds good. This really means always exploring, testing, comparing, and developing vocabulary with tunes, tunes, and more tunes. As you acquire your collection you may discover that seeking to hear the context first and selecting among the elements of good vocabulary to express it make navigating the music much clearer.

Memorization means memorizing something - notes, fingerings, shapes, patterns... but the best is internalizing the sounds. The difference is that things in memory are recalled subject to errors, lapses, delays, and confusion, but things internalized are instant and unforgettable - making playing confident and comfortable. If you have not deliberately internalized something before, the best thing to do is pick something and do so. Once you know what it feels like to truly internalize, everything is much easier.

Varying vocabulary comes from knowing what you can fool with and still get the thing to sound good. The top down approach naturally leads to variation (hearing context first, then selecting within families of vocabulary). In the course of exploring and testing things to be included in a family that relates to particular contexts, lots of variation is captured and internalized, including applications.

[pamosmusic]

Steeplechase maybe?


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That's exactly it. It just doesn't have the root of the minor 7 ... just a major triad up with that little chromatic enclosure on top.

So anyway ... this lick is longer than I would choose maybe, but it is a complete phrase and each of those three little sub-phrases are kind of classic bebop motifs so it's kind of a perfect example.

To answer James's question -- how would I work on that -- break it into smaller chunks first.

[Mick-7]

** if the passage over the Bbm7 doesn’t qualify as a “lick” I don’t know what possibly could. It’s “The Honeysuckle Rose.”

EDIT: the passage over Ab and Db is a classic bebop-ism too. Paging Christian on that one

I did notice the Honeysuckle Rose quote, I only looked at that II-V-I passage. The entire line is too long to work with anyway,

Most of the effort I've put in over the years to learn licks has been wasted time. Licks rarely stick in my head. Endless repetition helps less than it should. I've read through lick books repeatedly and got nothing from the effort.

My experience has been similar, I wasn't seeing progress from copying licks. Listening a lot and transcribing lines I liked that mystified me (I don't think I've ever transcribed an entire solo) has been my approach.