Wynton Marsalis on the importance of aggressive inspiration in education ...

[ruger9]

Of course swing bands were mostly white. How you gonna put a )dozen brothers up for the night at a hotel on tour in the 30s 40s 50s. Who is footing the bill for those big bands? White people.

I would bet that most white guys posting here have their favorite jazz artists that are also generally white. Birds of a feather flock together, it's just a fact of life. White people like white music and black people like black music. Occassionally you find someone that crosses that boundary line among the general public. More common now, less common then.

If it's not mostly black music then what were those dudes doing going to black clubs to learn techniques? White people play a lot of basketball too but there aren't that many in the NBA. It's simillar to jazz in that regard the way I see it. Brought to fruition by blacks, brought to a bigger market by white. Its a symbiotic relationship but the core of it is blues which is black music. I had to disagree with you on something eventually lol

Because it WAS black music... so black clubs is where the WHITE swing players went to learn it. Then the WHITE swing players were the ones all over the radio for near 20 years... making it no longer black music. For the vast majority, the swing music being bought by the white populace was written, arranged, and performed by... white people.


OK, so let's talk specifics:

Modern times. Say, the last 30 years.
We need a population count of professional jazz musicians' races. Know where we can find that? I've been listening to (and buying) jazz music for a long time, and I don't see jazz (or blues) as being predominantly any race. Rock? Whites still have a lock on that one, for the most part. Pop? haha that's a rainbow. Classical? White. Opera? White.

Best-selling jazz artist EVER: Kenny G.

2022 jazz chart-toppers:
Contemporary Jazz Albums Artists – Billboard

[ruger9]

I agree with Tal_175 that in this case you appear to being applying a false equivalence: The actions can be deemed "right or wrong" based on what type of entity does them; Private party or government. Another example would be use-of-force: such use-of-force can only be deemed "right or wrong" based on what type of entity used said use-of-force: E.g., a police officer or an everyday Joe.

So it's "right" if a police officer drives over the speed limit because he's a police officer (not in pursuit)? But "wrong" if I do it?

[DawgBone]

Mankind should be more intelligent than birds. I'm a half-breed (50% spilt) and thus my "fact of life" paradigm if typically different than those that believe they have to "flock together".

You sound somewhat idealistic but I do understand what you mean.

Mankind repeats the same mistakes over and over. Mankind is incapable of changing on their own. Individuals can change to some degree but large groups have a harder time with it.

We are In a similar boat to some degree. I only identify as human but governmental entities have a tidy box to check for all our benefit no doubt. Which is why I refuse to answer ethnicity questions when seeking grants. It's nobody's business but .mine.

[ruger9]

You sound somewhat idealistic but I do understand what you mean.

Mankind repeats the same mistakes over and over. Mankind is incapable of changing on their own. Individuals can change to some degree but large groups have a harder time with it.

We are In a similar boat to some degree. I only identify as human but governmental entities have a tidy box to check for all our benefit no doubt. Which is why I refuse to answer ethnicity questions when seeking grants. It's nobody's business but .mine.

The ethnicity questions shouldn't even exist, if we are going to be a "color-blind" society.

The only exception are medical forms, where ethnicity can indeed be indicators of issues with certain conditions or medications.

[DawgBone]

Because it WAS black music... so black clubs is where the WHITE swing players went to learn it. Then the WHITE swing players were the ones all over the radio for near 20 years... making it no longer black music. For the vast majority, the swing music being bought by the white populace was written, arranged, and performed by... white people.


OK, so let's talk specifics:

Modern times. Say, the last 30 years.
We need a population count of professional jazz musicians' races. Know where we can find that? I've been listening to (and buying) jazz music for a long time, and I don't see jazz (or blues) as being predominantly any race. Rock? Whites still have a lock on that one, for the most part. Pop? haha that's a rainbow. Classical? White. Opera? White.

Best-selling jazz artist EVER: Kenny G.

2022 jazz chart-toppers:
Contemporary Jazz Albums Artists – Billboard

It WAS black music?

So is it stolen, borrowed, or requisitioned?

[ruger9]

It WAS black music?

So is it stolen, borrowed, or requisitioned?

It is learned, played, and evolved. Because it's not about race, it's about music. That was exactly the point when Benny Goodman hired Charlie Christian.

[DawgBone]

The ethnicity questions shouldn't even exist, if we are going to be a "color-blind" society.

The only exception are medical forms, where ethnicity can indeed be indicators of issues with certain conditions or medications.

Heh medical forms are the last thing I would provide any legitimate information for. I don't want to be a Tuskegee experiment or a pincushion for the latest Pfizer products.

[mr. beaumont]

re: right v wrong, you missed the end of my post: in your OPINION.

Cult could be defined as believing in something that isn't true, yes?.

No. Like there's actual definitions. A cult is a group of people that show religious devotion to something. It's not an opinion.

[DawgBone]

It is learned, played, and evolved. Because it's not about race, it's about music. That was exactly the point when Benny Goodman hired Charlie Christian.

You can't dance to it now mostly thanks to cerebral white college kids so maybe you are right. It's university music and that means white guys and plenty of em!

If someone asked me about the roots of jazz I would say blues mostly. There is no ownership per se but it's roots are all black and that is the core component of all that followed. Most blues players are white now as well but somehow blues is still black music while jazz isn't? That dont really square with me.

[ruger9]

No. Like there's actual definitions. A cult is a group of people that show religious devotion to something. It's not an opinion.

Then color me a cultist, because I have a religious devotion to SCIENCE.

[ruger9]

Most blues players are white now as well but somehow blues is still black music while jazz isn't? That dont really square with me.

I don't think it is? At least it's not up here north of the Mason-Dixon Line. I have heard some of the south remains... "different." Even 158 years later...

[James W]

I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. One does not need to be rich to be charitable. Ask me how I know LOL. And to "dislike charity"- for ANY STANCE- well, I'm sorry again, but that's just nonsensical. I'm not sure you're thinking straight.

OR... you are thinking exactly the way you have been taught to think by your progressive professors, perhaps. Either way, disliking charity is borderline evil... do you have Wormwood on your shoulder?

Oscar Wilde. The Soul of Man under Socialism (marxists.org)

[DawgBone]

I don't think it is? At least it's not up here north of the Mason-Dixon Line. I have heard some of the south remains... "different." Even 158 years later...

Well my inner jerk would say that the worst blues probably is white music now lol. The good stuff however should always be black informed. Most of my favorite musical selections are by black artists so I'm biased. I don't cover any blues written by white guys except Don Nix and a version of a Bob Dylan tune I pulled from some live Freddie king.

[ruger9]

Oscar Wilde. The Soul of Man under Socialism (marxists.org)

The prosecution rests. LOL

[ruger9]

Well my inner jerk would say that the worst blues probably is white music now lol. The good stuff however should always be black informed. Most of my favorite musical selections are by black artists so I'm biased. I don't cover any blues written by white guys except Don Nix and a version of a Bob Dylan tune I pulled from some live Freddie king.

I can't disagree with any of that. My favorite blues also comes from older, black, artists. I give SRV the exception, simply because I grew up listening to him, so he's special to me. (and while alot of his stuff could be considered blues ROCK, alot of his stuff is straight blues as well.)

[James W]

The prosecution rests. LOL

Aw bless, a cartoon.

Truth is, we have socialism for the rich - banks and bankers bailed out with trillions of dollars of tax-payer money after the financial crash - and capitalism i.e austerity for the poor.

[ruger9]

Aw bless, a cartoon.

Truth is, we have socialism for the rich - banks and bankers bailed out with trillions of dollars of tax-payer money after the financial crash

Oh, I totally agree with you on that- and it's nonsense. However, if you think marxism/socialism will "fix" that, you are living in a dream world. It's never worked. Anywhere. Just ask Venezuela, it's most recent victim.

[James W]

Oh, I totally agree with you on that- and it's nonsense. However, if you think marxism/socialism will "fix" that, you are living in a dream world. It's never worked. Anywhere. Just ask Venezuela, it's most recent victim.

How many people in the country I'm lucky enough to live in do you think go bankrupt when they become sick or ill?

[DawgBone]

Oh, I totally agree with you on that- and it's nonsense. However, if you think marxism/socialism will "fix" that, you are living in a dream world. It's never worked. Anywhere. Just ask Venezuela, it's most recent victim.

A world without exceptionalism where everyone drags their ass cause we all get the same bullshit whether we contribute or not. Like cuba where you could get a great big bowl of beans and rice for a nickel just don't expect anything besides beans and rice.

[ruger9]

How many people in the country I'm lucky enough to live in do you think go bankrupt when they become sick or ill?

What does that have to do with taxpayer money bailing out banks?

As for socialist medicine, that's another no-go: here in America we have the Vet, which is a "free" healthcare system for our veterans... ONLY our veterans, which is a very small number compared to the population. Our govt has made a mess of it, and if they can't be relied upon to handle a SMALL socialized medicine system such as the Vet, they certainly cannot be trusted to handle the healthcare of the whole country. And with regards to corporations (since marxists REALLY HATE those).... what do you think every single big Pharma company is? Do you have any idea how much money and power is at stake with the relationship between govt and big Pharma?

Sorry, marxism is a failure. It always has been. It always will be. It's an illusion. Looks good on paper, but NEVER operates that way in practice. You have been fooled.

And because we have already gotten too far afield from the topic of this thread, I won't go into the differences in quality of the healthcare system between your country and mine. Ours is certainly far from perfect, but from everything I have read about yours, it is also.

[m_d]

France has always subsidised its arts. With this in mind, how can you say subsidization of the arts has killed the arts without suffering some serious cognitive dissonance?

Always? When exactly ? It started in 1981 (Americans... Be careful what you wish for). To that extent? Never. With money they no longer have, hence the whole thing will collapse. It's inevitable.

[James W]

What does that have to do with taxpayer money bailing out banks?

As for socialist medicine, that's another no-go: here in America we have the Vet, which is a "free" healthcare system for our veterans... ONLY our veterans, which is a very small number compared to the population. Our govt has made a mess of it, and if they can't be relied upon to handle a SMALL socialized medicine system such as the Vet, they certainly cannot be trusted to handle the healthcare of the whole country. And with regards to corporations (since marxists REALLY HATE those).... what do you think every single big Pharma company is? Do you have any idea how much money and power is at stake with the relationship between govt and big Pharma?

Sorry, marxism is a failure. It always has been. It always will be. It's an illusion. Looks good on paper, but NEVER operates that way in practice. You have been fooled.

And because we have already gotten too far afield from the topic of this thread, I won't go into the differences in quality of the healthcare system between your country and mine. Ours is certainly far from perfect, but from everything I have read about yours, it is also.

The answer you were looking for is zero. Zero people go bankrupt because of medical fees in the UK, thanks to socialised health care.

[Spook410]

There is not an individual here that is empowered to change the meaning of the English language.

Nor is there any one person who can speak to regional racism. A topic wrought with several demographic variables and excessive political pandering. Not to mention self serving views.

And nobody can tell me why I keep posting on these threads. All of this analytical depth from purveyors of ii and V's and yet we are still facing a Biden/Trump election. I was told there would be a hand basket..

PS: Blues and rock and roll are tied at the hip. Same chord progressions. Same pentatonic solos. Same rhythms. Same themes. Of course there is traditional blues and subvariants.. but that has an even smaller audience than jazz.

[Spook410]

The answer you were looking for is zero. Zero people go bankrupt because of medical fees in the UK, thanks to socialised health care.

They go bankrupt because if they fall ill, they can't earn a living while waiting months on marginal medical care.

[ruger9]

The answer you were looking for is zero. Zero people go bankrupt because of medical fees in the UK, thanks to socialised health care.

IDK about bankrupt, but with wait times like these, I would be afraid of dying before I went bankrupt.

For example, a total of 2,745 people in Birmingham and Solihull have been waiting more than a year for eye operations, while only two people in Barnsley are in the same situation.
Similarly, a total of 3,656 people in Norfolk and Waveney have still not had their orthopaedic surgery despite being on the waiting list there for more than 52 weeks. But that is 100 times more than the 36 people in North East Lincolnshire.

Devon also had 455 patients who had been waiting more than a year for heart surgery.
There were 25 times more people waiting for a heart operation (10,299) in Birmingham and Solihull, which has England’s largest waiting list for that care, than West Lancashire (410). Similarly, north-east London has 14 times more people waiting for a new hip or knee (21,729) than Knowsley on Merseyside (1,514), which has the fewest of such patients.