Wynton Marsalis on the importance of aggressive inspiration in education ...

[DawgBone]

PS: Blues and rock and roll are tied at the hip. Same chord progressions. Same pentatonic solos. Same rhythms. Same themes. Of course there is traditional blues and subvariants.. but that has an even smaller audience than jazz.

Giant oversimplification. Surprising coming from someone on a jazz forum.

[DawgBone]

IDK about bankrupt, but with wait times like these, I would be afraid of dying before I went bankrupt.

For example, a total of 2,745 people in Birmingham and Solihull have been waiting more than a year for eye operations, while only two people in Barnsley are in the same situation.
Similarly, a total of 3,656 people in Norfolk and Waveney have still not had their orthopaedic surgery despite being on the waiting list there for more than 52 weeks. But that is 100 times more than the 36 people in North East Lincolnshire.

Devon also had 455 patients who had been waiting more than a year for heart surgery.
There were 25 times more people waiting for a heart operation (10,299) in Birmingham and Solihull, which has England’s largest waiting list for that care, than West Lancashire (410). Similarly, north-east London has 14 times more people waiting for a new hip or knee (21,729) than Knowsley on Merseyside (1,514), which has the fewest of such patients.

Let's talk about English dental care while we are at it. Looks heavily non subsidized just judging by summa them grins. Not everything can be free, just jazz!

[James W]

IDK about bankrupt, but with wait times like these, I would be afraid of dying before I went bankrupt.

For example, a total of 2,745 people in Birmingham and Solihull have been waiting more than a year for eye operations, while only two people in Barnsley are in the same situation.
Similarly, a total of 3,656 people in Norfolk and Waveney have still not had their orthopaedic surgery despite being on the waiting list there for more than 52 weeks. But that is 100 times more than the 36 people in North East Lincolnshire.

Devon also had 455 patients who had been waiting more than a year for heart surgery.
There were 25 times more people waiting for a heart operation (10,299) in Birmingham and Solihull, which has England’s largest waiting list for that care, than West Lancashire (410). Similarly, north-east London has 14 times more people waiting for a new hip or knee (21,729) than Knowsley on Merseyside (1,514), which has the fewest of such patients.

It's true, but this is capitalism in action. The Tories have been deliberately underfunding the NHS.

[ruger9]

let's talk about english dental care while we are at it. Looks heavily non subsidized just judging by summa them grins. Not everything can be free, just jazz!

lol

[ruger9]

It's true, but this is capitalism in action. The Tories have been deliberately underfunding the NHS.

Oh, of course... it's the non-marxists' fault LOL

[James W]

Oh, of course... it's the non-marxists' fault LOL

Yes, it's the government's fault. Who else's fault is it going to be?

You wanna look at your own country: US Has Highest Infant, Maternal Mortality Rates Despite the Most Health Care Spending (ajmc.com)

[DawgBone]

Oh, of course... it's the non-marxists' fault LOL

Kinda like Forrest Gump where the hippie boyfriend beats the shit out of Jenny and then blames that "son of a bitch johnson" and vietnam for his failings as a boyfriend, lol.

[ruger9]

Yes, it's the government's fault. Who else's fault is it going to be?

You wanna look at your own country: US Has Highest Infant, Maternal Mortality Rates Despite the Most Health Care Spending (ajmc.com)

I never implied the US healthcare system was perfect, I even admitted it. YOU were the one preaching the "wonders" of socialized healthcare. At least I can see everything at face value, as opposed to seeing everything through rose colored glasses that you wear.

[ruger9]

Kinda like Forrest Gump where the hippie boyfriend beats the shit out of Jenny and then blames that "son of a bitch johnson" and vietnam for his failings as a boyfriend, lol.

oh man you're on a roll LOL

[Christian Miller]

haha and therein lies the rub.

Again- being able to decide what YOUR INDIVIDUAL tax money funds would be wonderful... and I think it would be very telling, what got funded and what didn't...

I love the "space race" stuff, always have. But at this point, perhaps we should stop spending billions of dollars trying to "colonize mars" and instead spend the money down here where it's actually needed? Just an idea...LOL

Well. Hmmm. I mean NASA seem to be quite good at it? Sure they can be a bit slow, tame and take a long time to do anything but they know what they are doing. And while you could say that’s a public sector trait, NASA of course has always used contractors like McDonnell Douglas and Boeing. I suppose space X isn’t simply making stuff to NASA specs but ploughing their own course…

That and it has sort of turned into an Elon Musk circus. But presumably the people at NASA who have contracted out the moon lander to space X (starship) are watching with interest. The bottom line is the thing I guess….

I suppose Elon musk adds a bit of drama and excitement back into it like the early days of the space race. More and more though it seems that he’s basically a bit of a fantasist. Or PR guy. That said Falcon is not nothing even if it didn’t live up to Elon’s extravagant projections. The promise of starship is real too. It is tbf innovative and different which is why NASA isn’t doing it (Artemis is shuttle era technology.) I guess we’ll see.

But no one wants to go to Mars. It’s an irradiated hellhole and the journey there will destroy your body. Besides starship won’t be human rated for a while at least. But as a cargo launch vehicle - it’s pretty tantalising for all sorts of people.

Anyway somewhat OT

[Christian Miller]

I never implied the US healthcare system was perfect, I even admitted it. YOU were the one preaching the "wonders" of socialized healthcare. At least I can see everything at face value, as opposed to seeing everything through rose colored glasses that you wear.

I think most people living in the UK honestly find it very hard to imagine what life in the US healthcare system would be like. Otoh I think the converse is also true.

[James W]

I think most people living in the UK honestly find it very hard to imagine what life in the US healthcare system would be like. Otoh I think the converse is also true.

My dad and a couple of my half-siblings live in the US, so I hear things. Mostly it sounds incredibly wasteful in time and money, filling out forms, bureaucracy. Whereas here it's something people don't have to think about, even given the decline in standards over the past thirteen years (and privatisation/PFI before and since).

Putting aside one's purported rose-coloured specs, the evidence is quite clear which is the better system.

[Spook410]

this I 100% agree with. It was invented in London by hairy (mostly white) men.

Except for when rock and roll was invented via race radio in the southern regions of the US. As a direct and combined outgrowth of traditional blues.

Or not.. I'm not British so I am likely misinformed.

[jameslovestal]

My dad and a couple of my half-siblings live in the US, so I hear things. Mostly it sounds incredibly wasteful in time and money, filling out forms, bureaucracy. Whereas here it's something people don't have to think about, even given the decline in standards over the past thirteen years (and privatisation/PFI before and since).

Putting aside one's purported rose-coloured specs, the evidence is quite clear which is the better system.

The problem with the US healthcare system is that insurance companies make billions in profit for performing administrative services. Insurance companies don't provide medical services to patients! Of course, some entity has to perform these administrative services, but they shouldn't make a profit from it.

While it is too general of a statement to say " the evidence is quite clear which is the better system", I can agree that a system like the one in Switzerland, provides overall better medical care for a higher percentage of the people. E.g. The US system is "better" for those in the 65% percentile and higher income bracket, while more socialist systems are better for those below that income level. I work in this industry and have assisted actuaries with many studies that compare the various systems.

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

You can't dance to it now mostly thanks to cerebral white college kids so maybe you are right. It's university music and that means white guys and plenty of em!

If someone asked me about the roots of jazz I would say blues mostly. There is no ownership per se but it's roots are all black and that is the core component of all that followed. Most blues players are white now as well but somehow blues is still black music while jazz isn't? That dont really square with me.

I remember a record review in Downbeat in the 1980s and the critic was observing how blacks had abandoned the blues (perhaps they were tired of it?) And how whites had picked it up (there weren’t terms like “cultural appropriation” back then.)

So, is it possible that has now occurred with Jazz? If so, would you prefer that it be abandoned altogether?

[DawgBone]

I remember a record review in Downbeat in the 1980s and the critic was observing how blacks had abandoned the blues (perhaps they were tired of it?) And how whites had picked it up (there weren’t terms like “cultural appropriation” back then.)

So, is it possible that has now occurred with Jazz? If so, would you prefer that it be abandoned altogether?

I never believe what I read in media. I would say whoever wrote the downbeat article didn't do their research in the 80's when they wrote it or were just going for some bombastic attention grabbing statements which is more likely the case since media's real reason for existence is to sell people crap via ads.

The south seems to still be a cradle of blues IME. There are still many black blues performers and bands in TX, but there are larger numbers of performers here in general. Are there less black blues players than times past? Yes probably. There are also fewer white blues players than 30 years ago. There are more clubs here now, but also way fewer dedicated "blues" clubs. I only know of one left in Houston. I would estimate about 30 or 40 percent of the blues bands gigging regular in this area are black or have some black members. I do think younger black kids have turned mostly to rap and hip hop for "their" music but it's not like they don't know anything about the music of their elders or have discarded it entirely. I know younger black guys doing jazz, soul, funk, blues, and blues rock. My vision may be skewed since this area is likely one of the largest if not the largest live music area in the world.

I don't have a preference if other people abandon a given form of music or not. I only know what I like to play and listen to. I don't believe in terms like cultural appropriation, those are made up fantasy ideas by bitter and angry people who make money and get attention stirring up strife among others.

[Litterick]

Jazz is a Scandinavian thing these days.

[Christian Miller]

Except for when rock and roll was invented via race radio in the southern regions of the US. As a direct and combined outgrowth of traditional blues.

Or not.. I'm not British so I am likely misinformed.

Im talking specifically about blues rock which AFAIK is generally held as distinct from rock and roll. Some differences might include a direct influence from Chicago blues artists like Freddie King, Howlin‘ Wolf etc. So think Cream, Zeppelin, Jimi and early Fleetwood Mac as opposed to the early rockers.

[Christian Miller]

My dad and a couple of my half-siblings live in the US, so I hear things. Mostly it sounds incredibly wasteful in time and money, filling out forms, bureaucracy. Whereas here it's something people don't have to think about, even given the decline in standards over the past thirteen years (and privatisation/PFI before and since).

Putting aside one's purported rose-coloured specs, the evidence is quite clear which is the better system.

Well if I’ve learned anything it’s that 90% of Americans will defend whatever American thing it is against criticism from outside regardless of what they really think haha.

To be fair it’s a bit like that with Brits and the NHS. (But I know which system I’d prefer.)

[Christian Miller]

I never believe what I read in media. I would say whoever wrote the downbeat article didn't do their research in the 80's when they wrote it or were just going for some bombastic attention grabbing statements which is more likely the case since media's real reason for existence is to sell people crap via ads.

The south seems to still be a cradle of blues IME. There are still many black blues performers and bands in TX, but there are larger numbers of performers here in general. Are there less black blues players than times past? Yes probably. There are also fewer white blues players than 30 years ago. There are more clubs here now, but also way fewer dedicated "blues" clubs. I only know of one left in Houston. I would estimate about 30 or 40 percent of the blues bands gigging regular in this area are black or have some black members. I do think younger black kids have turned mostly to rap and hip hop for "their" music but it's not like they don't know anything about the music of their elders or have discarded it entirely. I know younger black guys doing jazz, soul, funk, blues, and blues rock. My vision may be skewed since this area is likely one of the largest if not the largest live music area in the world.

I don't have a preference if other people abandon a given form of music or not. I only know what I like to play and listen to. I don't believe in terms like cultural appropriation, those are made up fantasy ideas by bitter and angry people who make money and get attention stirring up strife among others.

thats good to hear. I notice there’s a few youngish black artists that are playing blues. Obvious example being Gary Clark Jr, but I’m sure tons more that I haven’t heard of.

[Christian Miller]

Back when ‘classical’ music was dance music and had a rhythm section (with guitar)..

tbh I find it hard not to hear this type of piece as written out jamming on a vamp

[ruger9]

Putting aside one's purported rose-coloured specs, the evidence is quite clear which is the better system.

The irony is palpable. One of the worst cases of confirmation bias I've yet witnessed. They've got you trained well.

[James W]

The irony is palpable. One of the worst cases of confirmation bias I've yet witnessed. They've got you trained well.

What irony? Who has me trained well? You still not read this? - US Has Highest Infant, Maternal Mortality Rates Despite the Most Health Care Spending (ajmc.com)

See also - This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy (cnbc.com)

[ruger9]

Except for when rock and roll was invented via race radio in the southern regions of the US. As a direct and combined outgrowth of traditional blues.

Or not.. I'm not British so I am likely misinformed.

No- you've got it right. Interestingly, what we now call "rockabilly" (the early Elvis and other Sun Records stuff) was called rock and roll back then. They never used the term rockabilly. That term came into fashion sometime later.

I think what is considered to be the "first rock and roll song" is Rocket 88. Sounds more like jump blues to me, but whatever. Great song. Of course there was no "one song" that created rock and roll; it was a progression. Great info:

‘Rocket 88’: The Story Behind The First Rock’n’Roll Record?

[ruger9]

Well if I’ve learned anything it’s that 90% of Americans will defend whatever American thing it is against criticism from outside regardless of what they really think haha.

I think that's pretty much everybody. I have no problem pointing out America's problems (which I done in this thread.).

I think anyone who thinks any system is "perfect" is a fool. Or even "better than everything else". It's all 6-of-1/half dozen of the other. Everyone has preferences, but there are problems with everything. You can't make everything work for everybody all the time. It's not possible. And Marxism has proven that, over and over and over again.