Approaches to Improvisation

[Tal_175]

Alright so here’s some of this stuff … it’s way after midnight here so don’t at me on the backing track balance, etc etc


Over the minor 7 chords it’s major 7 a half step down. So for Gm7 it’s the Gb major scale for the Bb and F.

Then I threw the minor in its usual spot over the other chords.

For dominant it’s minor off the fifth, so C7 becomes Gm becomes Gbmaj.

And for major it’s minor off the sixth, so Fmaj7 becomes Dm becomes Dbmaj.,

I went with a lot of major bebop language for that stuff. So it’s kind of a heretical take on the whole thing, but like I said, my first instinct with this stuff is beboppification. And I have to keep myself busy while all this scalar stuff sets in.

Some other junk in there I just went for. Trying to grab some ideas off those chromatic passing notes. Nothing too terribly put together.

Cool. A lot of nice variations on the triplet arpeggios with an approach note followed by descending lines with ghosted up beats. Very bebop-y indeed. Do you deliberately ghost some of those lower up beats? I like using those rhythmically, you can throw almost any note between two descending notes.

[pamosmusic]

Deliberately? I suppose so. More like just something I picked up over time from listening probably.

I listen to a lot of trumpets and have spent a lot of time trying to copy the articulation — ghost notes, half valves, whatever — so generally yeah, but not sure I’ve put a ton of thought into that move specifically

[CliffR]

An exercise I picked up from Jens recently Play groups of 3 or 5 (2 or 4 notes plus a rest) over the change and make the minimal voice-led adjustment to hit the new chord. I then follow it up with something a bit more free for variety. I've been trying this over 2-3 tunes so far. Here it is over a few bars of Blue Bossa:

[CliffR]

Taking that same idea through a couple of choruses of an F blues:

[Mick-7]

An exercise I picked up from Jens recently Play groups of 3 or 5 (2 or 4 notes plus a rest) over the change and make the minimal voice-led adjustment to hit the new chord. I then follow it up with something a bit more free for variety. I've been trying this over 2-3 tunes so far. Here it is over a few bars of Blue Bossa

Yes, using brief phrases to improvise is an effective method although I'd say that 2 or 3 notes is too brief. I found it's better to take a melodic phrase, of say 4 to 5 notes, and modify it to fit the changes - you could do it with part of a song's melody or a variation of it. Uploading an example of that is on my "to do" list.

[GuyBoden]

Yes, using brief phrases to improvise is an effective method although I'd say that 2 or 3 notes is too brief. I found it's better to take a melodic phrase, of say 4 to 5 notes, and modify it to fit the changes - you could do it with part of a song's melody or a variation of it. Uploading an example of that is on my "to do" list.

I've been concentrating on playing only "one phrase a month" for a while. Modifying the phrase to fit into every song I know. I find that too much info and I don't remember anything, so it's "one phrase a month" only.

[Mick-7]

I've been concentrating on playing only "one phrase a month" for a while. Modifying the phrase to fit into every song I know. I find that too much info and I don't remember anything, so it's "one phrase a month" only.

What's your phrase for June?

[pamosmusic]

I've been concentrating on playing only "one phrase a month" for a while. Modifying the phrase to fit into every song I know. I find that too much info and I don't remember anything, so it's "one phrase a month" only.

ohhh very nice idea

[CliffR]

Yes, using brief phrases to improvise is an effective method although I'd say that 2 or 3 notes is too brief. I found it's better to take a melodic phrase, of say 4 to 5 notes, and modify it to fit the changes - you could do it with part of a song's melody or a variation of it. Uploading an example of that is on my "to do" list.

Thanks for listening and commenting Mick. In my case, the idea of the exercise is to add rhythmic displacement, hence the use of 2 or 4 melody notes followed in each case by a single rest. As Jens Larsen described it: best to keep the melody simple and focus the listener's ear on what's happening with the rhythm with this approach.

[GuyBoden]

What's your phrase for June?

Notated below, this has been my phrase for June 2025.

Obviously, it's a Parker inspired cliché, but it's easy to remember and modify.

It's the style of phrasing I like, which is a personal thing for each of us.



I was trying to insert this phrase into every song during a jam with a friend yesterday.

[Mick-7]

Notated below, this has been my phrase for June 2025.

Obviously, it's a Parker inspired cliché, but it's easy to remember and modify.

It's the style of phrasing I like, which is a personal thing for each of us.

I'd say that's too long to work with, the gist of the phrase is the 5 note pattern after the pick up note (F#). You could repeat that pattern, like so:

I was trying to insert this phrase into every song during a jam with a friend yesterday.

Good way to lose a friend.

[CliffR]

I'd say that's too long to work with, the gist of the phrase is the 5 note pattern after the pick up note (F#)..

This is turning into Goldilocks and the lick lengths.

[Mick-7]

This is turning into Goldilocks and the lick lengths.

Yes, well, the longer the phrase is, the more of a "bear" it is to modify/transpose it.

[GuyBoden]

I'd say that's too long to work with, the gist of the phrase is the 5 note pattern after the pick up note (F#). You could repeat that pattern, like so:






Good way to lose a friend.

Yes, good example, the phrase can be modified anyway you like, it's such a good phrase. Yes, that one bar is the main phrase I've been playing for nearly a month, I like adding a pickup and a resolution.

The main part of the phrase can be repeated, it's been in the "The Notated Lick Compendium" for a while.
Here:
The Notated Lick Compendium

See below:

The Notated Lick Compendium.

A thread for posting and storing notated licks.

A classic I-Vi-ii-V type lick:

Attachment 123416

[CliffR]

Groups of four notes over the last 8 bars of All Of Me

[pauln]

Oxford's J. L. Austin; his descriptive words were old fashioned but the organisation looks familiar with liberties applied to playing music.

Locutionary (act of playing) ...three components:
- Phonetic (producing sound) ...learning technique
- Phatic (using "grammar") ...practicing melody / harmony / rhythm
- Rhetic (making meaningful phrases) ...developing improvisation

Illocutionary (what is expressed) ...ideation / emotion content
Perlocutionary (effect on listeners) ...quality of response

[CliffR]

Taking the wildly popular groups-of-five idea and using it as part of a (composed) line over the lead up to ATTYA's final section.

[Mick-7]

Taking the wildly popular groups-of-five idea and using it as part of a (composed) line over the lead up to ATTYA's final section.

In your previous video (4 note pattern), you're transposing a specific pattern, but in this one you are doing what, trying to improvise in 5 note phrases? - because the phrases are different.

[pamosmusic]

In your previous video (4 note pattern), you're transposing a specific pattern, but in this one you are doing what, trying to improvise in 5 note phrases? - because the phrases are different.

I'll hazard a guess on this one:


I bet he's using it as part of a (composed) line over the lead up to ATTYA's final section.

[Mick-7]

I'll hazard a guess on this one:

I bet he's using it as part of a (composed) line over the lead up to ATTYA's final section.

No way! That was never wildly or even mildly popular, "Taking the wildly popular groups-of-five idea and using it as...."

[CliffR]

I'm told I should have described the previous one as a 'five-note' pattern, too, since the rest counts as a note. So this latest is the same idea, the difference being, as Peter deduced, it's mixed in with some other stuff . So we have an approaching F# half diminished up to the B7b9, where I repeat the third, down to the root, up to the b9 and back up to the third; I follow this with a single group of 5 over the EM7 - root, down to the fifth, up to the major 7th and back up to the root. After that a descent on C7b13 and on to the melody over Fm7 and Bbm7. At the time I came up with it I quite liked the way the tension continued to build until resolving on the melody. Not sure if that comes across to the listener. And not sure if it's okay to keep the tension going over the EM7, the supposed target of the earlier ii-V-I.

[GuyBoden]

I'm told I should have described the previous one as a 'five-note' pattern, too, since the rest counts as a note. So this latest is the same idea, the difference being, as Peter deduced, it's mixed in with some other stuff . So we have an approaching F# half diminished up to the B7b9, where I repeat the third, down to the root, up to the b9 and back up to the third; I follow this with a single group of 5 over the EM7 - root, down to the fifth, up to the major 7th and back up to the root. After that a descent on C7b13 and on to the melody over Fm7 and Bbm7. At the time I came up with it I quite liked the way the tension continued to build until resolving on the melody. Not sure if that comes across to the listener. And not sure if it's okay to keep the tension going over the EM7, the supposed target of the earlier ii-V-I.

Keep up the practice Cliff, the more practice, the more improvement.

[CliffR]

Keep up the practice Cliff, the more practice, the more improvement.

You bet!

[voxo]

so if i get an octave pedal will i sound like WES....if the answers yes ill get one..

[GuyBoden]

so if i get an octave pedal will i sound like WES....if the answers yes ill get one..

Below is the simplest OCTAVE pedal:


Start with this 'C' octave, practice this slowly and then add other octaves.