Just the melody.

[pamosmusic]

I think 2 keys is enough. Whatever key fits the E and A shapes. C shape is good too though…

Lawson has the right idea, do what you need to do to like what you can do.

For the sake of this example I learn a tune in C(8th Fret E string), transpose to F(on the A string using position 5 or A shape) and G(also on A but using position 6 or C shape), then Bb and Eb in case the horn needs to read a C chart and I have to transpose down a step.

That has me about covered, but I’m also 5/12 by this point and the rest is just fretboard sliding so I might as well finish it. I’ve already done the hard work after all.

The work is the same for everyone, if you don’t do it, that’s fine, but you’re not going to get struck by lightning and unlock the fretboard.

I don’t think you need to learn everything in a bunch of keys.

And yes I do get some extra time by virtue of it being my job.

on the other hand, one of my regrets when I was getting going was that I rushed through tunes. If it takes a two or three weeks to get through a tune in five or six keys then that’s 20 tunes a year and maybe I’ll know them well enough to not forget them.

I guess one thing I think would be a big marker of the difference between young and dumb peter, and the older somewhat less dumb peter you see before you is that I started letting myself work on way longer time horizons.

[ragman1]

I wouldn't bother doing a tune in all 12 keys because it would be seriously boring. Tunes have their keys and sound right in them.

What I do is play tunes that are written in awkward keys and learn that way because the harmonies include all the unfamiliar chords.

If you've done all that and not learnt your keys then you probably haven't done it :-)

[AllanAllen]

Back to my timeless meandering without a click.

[AllanAllen]

I don’t think you need to learn everything in a bunch of keys.

And yes I do get some extra time by virtue of it being my job.

on the other hand, one of my regrets when I was getting going was that I rushed through tunes. If it takes a two or three weeks to get through a tune in five or six keys then that’s 20 tunes a year and maybe I’ll know them well enough to not forget them.

I guess one thing I think would be a big marker of the difference between young and dumb peter, and the older somewhat less dumb peter you see before you is that I started letting myself work on way longer time horizons.

Sure, I haven’t done Four in any key but Eb.

But vocal tunes I’ve been playing along with different recordings for phrasing. Astrud Gilberto does Fly Me To The Moon in G for example and that’s different than Sinatra/Basie who did it in C. It’s a one position tune so easy enough to slide around.

There are worse ways I’ve spent my time.

[kris]

When practicing song melodies, do you think about chord changes at the same time?
doesn't that matter in these exercises?

[GuyBoden]

When practicing song melodies, do you think about chord changes at the same time?
doesn't that matter in these exercises?

Personally, I analyse the melody note (interval) with the chord, I find that this makes the improv easier for me. (But, you are a much better player than me.)

I've currently started learning "Just Friends" melody by ear, then notating it. See below:

[kris]

This tune is most often played in the key of F.

[kris]

[GuyBoden]

This tune is most often played in the key of F.

Both Keys?, take your pick, here's the first 8 bars in the key of 'F'

[pamosmusic]

This tune is most often played in the key of F.

I hear it called in G more than F.

[GuyBoden]

I'm listening to this video tutorial version of 'Just Friends', it's easier for my level of playing ability.

[kris]

I hear it called in G more than F.

I played in these two keys.
But at concerts and jam sessions it was the key of F...I played it with professional musicians.
With female singers, there were different keys and it was often the key of G.
Or I suggested Aebersold 40 years ago and it stayed in my head. The first solo I learned:

[kris]

Jazz giants also often play it in Bb/Peterson,Coltrane/.
Pat Martino played in F:

[GuyBoden]

Charlie Parker - Just Friends
This is the version I've listened to most over the years, it's key signature is 'Ab Major'.

[pamosmusic]

Charlie Parker - Just Friends
This is the version I've listened to most over the years, it's key signature is 'Ab Major'.

interesting. Not sitting w an instrument but if it’s concert Ab, then it would be in birds F.

[CliffR]

interesting. Not sitting w an instrument but if it’s concert Ab, then it would be in birds F.

I've been learning licks from Bird's solo on All Of Me for some time now. It's transcribed as being in F, but I guess it's in concert Ab. I've been transposing it to C, which seems to be the more common key for the tune. It's been a wild ride. Mistakes have been made (by me, I mean):

I think it's an interesting solo from the point of view of this thread. It starts off pretty close to the melody, but turns shortly into an improvisation. At bar 7, he resolves to the root of the chord, whereas the original melody resolves to the third. Yet it sounds totally in keeping with the original. After that, it starts to diverge quite a lot. But what's interesting is that he establishes new phrases over the chords that come up with each chorus, but with variations in rhythm and melodic detail. For example, the triplet arpeggio up from the third of the root chord, starting a half step below, and followed by a descending scale run - that comes up a lot. Another seems to be the motif from the 3rd bar of the second chorus, where he starts on the root, followed by a little fast-triplet flurry and a descending run followed by a pivot back up. This shows up time and again with variations. It's like he's invented a new melody and plays variations on that instead, but it still anchors the listener.

[kris]

interesting. Not sitting w an instrument but if it’s concert Ab, then it would be in birds F.

Parker here plays in two keys...first he plays in the key of Ab and then he plays in the key of Bb.

[lawson-stone]

I think 2 keys is enough. Whatever key fits the E and A shapes. C shape is good too though…

Lawson has the right idea, do what you need to do to like what you can do.

For us amateur/hobby players that is pretty much the goal, but I can see how if I were in a lot of jam sessions or working with singers even informally, the 12 keys exercise would be helpful.

I think more important would be to practice each melody in 3-5 fingerings/positions, as you suggest. If you know a tune in 3 fingerings you can likely play in 12 keys.

[lawson-stone]

Back to my timeless meandering without a click.

I love the little smile at the end!

[lawson-stone]

When practicing song melodies, do you think about chord changes at the same time?
doesn't that matter in these exercises?

I always think about chord changes. I think the underlying chord is a good place to find embellishing notes and other material. I tend always to see melodies within their chord fingerings. I wish my playing were a better commendation of that practice, but I got into jazz guitar at first because I loved the chords, was obsessed with the chords. I got to melody a bit later.

[lawson-stone]

Personally, I analyse the melody note (interval) with the chord, I find that this makes the improv easier for me. (But, you are a much better player than me.)

I've currently started learning "Just Friends" melody by ear, then notating it. See below:

the best way I ever encountered for learning this tune is to learn the solo on the changes composed by Jimmy Raney that is found in the Aebersold play-a-long set with Jimmy. He uses ideas from the melody and creates very strong, and challenging, bebop solos that are a cut above any other exercise material I've ever seen. I played through that whole book and honestly my playing improved more over that period than at any other time in my life. I had to slow them down, of course, but seriously, I cannot praise this book enough. We had a study group here for about 3 years that worked over the solos and we all enjoyed it immensely.

[lawson-stone]

I played in these two keys.
But at concerts and jam sessions it was the key of F...I played it with professional musicians.
With female singers, there were different keys and it was often the key of G.
Or I suggested Aebersold 40 years ago and it stayed in my head. The first solo I learned:

That solo contains an entire volume of bebop ideas! I learned it, but played it quite a bit slower. I'm so glad to hear you playing it!

[pamosmusic]

For us amateur/hobby players that is pretty much the goal, but I can see how if I were in a lot of jam sessions or working with singers even informally, the 12 keys exercise would be helpful.

I think more important would be to practice each melody in 3-5 fingerings/positions, as you suggest. If you know a tune in 3 fingerings you can likely play in 12 keys.

So when I work on this kind of thing, I have no expectation whatsoever that I'll play it any of the keys I'm practicing it in. Aside from the few instances where the tune is really common in alternative keys (Just Friends, Autumn Leaves, even All of Me), I don't really expect to play them anywhere other than the common practice key.

I don't play tons with singers, and they really their rep can be really different than an instrumentalist's American Songbook rep. Last time I played with a singer, she was calling stuff like "Putting All My Eggs in One Basket" that I've never played at all, let alone in twelve keys.

What's helpful about playing in twelve keys is that I get to know the tune better -- I go from knowing the names of the chords, to knowing the function of the chords, to knowing what the chords sound like. Same with the melody. I go from knowing the notes, to knowing the intervals, to just knowing the sound and flow of the melody.

I think of it kind of like if I were going to paint a vase on the table, I might take a little time to sketch each of the flowers. I might sketch the vase itself from a few different angles, maybe at a different time of day to see how the light hits it. I don't expect to hang all that work on the wall, but it's still helping with the finished product.

As a practical skill, it also just helps you learn tunes quicker. Like with that singer (we were playing at a mutual friend's wedding), she called "It's Always Been You" which I don't know if I'd even heard before. But I can look at the leadsheet and go "cadence with a dropback, cadence with a dropback, cadence with a dropback, cadence with a dropback ... B section is the Satin Doll bridge ... great, done." And because I've played Satin Doll in a bunch of keys, it doesn't really matter to me that she's calling it in A, or whatever.

Unrelated to your post, but I think this is why I bristle a little bit when people quote the I Only Practice What I'll Perform thing, because I think it tends to encourage people to think a little too narrowly about what it means to practice what you'll perform.

[AllanAllen]

Also, you can’t practice what you’ll perform if you aren’t gigging.

[GuyBoden]

Parker here plays in two keys...first he plays in the key of Ab and then he plays in the key of Bb.

For anyone who is interested, here is a link to a transcription of 'Just Friends' from 'Charlie Parker with Strings':
https://jazzmusiclabcom.wordpress.co...sconcert-1.pdf