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If I was a librarian I wouldn't file Art Tatum under 'Weird Loner Pianists Who Sound Like Jazz Players But Aren't', I'd just file him under Jazz where he belongs.
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01-22-2025 01:59 AM
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I like this one. Let's have some fun!
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Yes, last week, I played (badly) 'Just Friends' live at Trefor Owen's Jazz Guitar Club, I think that I need a few months of playing the song to get it into my sub-conscious.
Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Apologies to Trefor, (Who is playing great aged in his 80's, on a very nice Johnny Smith.)
Here is the video evidence:
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Well Done! Performance is the final measure of progress, and you are advancing decisively. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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I'm finding it challenging to take tunes I have always done as chord-melody, literally from the first read-down of the page, and play the bare melody. I have so connected the melody to the chord-shapes that I'm finding it tricky to just play the melody, move it around, find the notes in different places, etc. This tune, "The Shadow of Your Smile," is one of those. Maybe the 2nd tune I ever learned, and learned it as a chord melody from the get-go.
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My Advice, don't tell us you did it badly, this puts a negative aura on the clip before anyone even watches it. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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But, I prefer the truth. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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When you compose a chord melody, do you try different chord voicings in various positions? If not, that's probably part of the reason you find it challenging to just play the melody. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Of course the approach to phrasing is different in each case, guitarists tend to let their chord melody technique dictate the way they phrase the melody when it should actually be the other way around. This why George Van Eps solo guitar renditions leave me cold, while they are admirable harmonically, his interpretation of the melody is usually so dull and soul-less that it turns me off. This isn't true of, say, Johnny Smith or Kenny Burrell.
"I wasn't happy with my performance" is honest enough - if you never are, it would probably be best to lower your expectations. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
But, I prefer the truth.
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Even if you try different voicings when composing a chord melody, it's VERY easy to get "married" to an arrangement. I lied to myself for years about this, thinking I wasn't married to my arrangement because I didn't harmonize every note and because I left room for improv in my arrangements...but the truth is, I knew the chords to the tune and I knew the arranged head, but I didn't really just know the melody--even if I could sing it.
One of the things I'm hoping to get from this is not just learning a ton of tunes, but also to get better at playing what I can sing in real time.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
"Even if you try different voicings when composing a chord melody, it's VERY easy to get "married" to an arrangement."
I agree, and I think this will always be the case until/unless you get to point where you can compose chord melodies on the fly, a la Joe Pass or Kenny Burrell. Don't know about Johnny Smith, his chord melodies sound arranged but I suspect that he'd be able to improvise a good one on the spot.
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Not to toot my own horn, but I am at the stage where I can "compose" a chord melody arrangement on the fly, at least as long as the tune isn't too difficult...or at least knock out an arrangement in a short period of time...obviously not at JP level, but I can do it...and the problem kind of still exists because of where the melody sound good in chords...might be a lot more jumping around the neck in order to keep the melody on the 1st or 2nd string...when playing the melody as single notes, that may or may not make sense.
Playing some of these melodies in position has made me realize how simple and diatonic some of them are, and how simple and diatonic can sound fantastic.
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If it’s not good enough to post, don’t post it. Otherwise, it’s good enough. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
But, I prefer the truth.
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Same here. I can pretty much create a chord-melody arrangement of a standard on the first or second try. That, of course, is what pianists always called "faking it." Using a lead sheet with chords and melody, playing the melody in the right hand and then putting the chords "under" it. I can do that fairly easily, and I can vary the voicings a lot because I've been at it, like you, for decades. I still find myself thinking of melodies in relation to the chords and the muscle memory doesn't kick in when I'm just trying to play the melody only. It's really more a matter of muscle memory. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Anything and everything is good enough to post on this forum, with caveats or without. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Everyone should be encouraged to post their videos, whatever their ability.
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You've pinpointed a knowledge gap, technical and/or hearing-wise, which prevents you from being as competent at playing single note lines as playing chord tone lines. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I think that the musicians I mentioned can hear chords or chord combinations as well or almost as well as they can hear single note lines. I attended a Joe Pass workshop that included a "stump Joe" segment, the idea was to name a tune that Joe did not know, and have him play a chord melody of it (in some cases, someone had to play or sing the melody for him). He had no problem doing that.
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Absolutely, but everyone doubts their own ability to some extent. Wes, for example, constantly doubted his, possibly because he was self-taught. Every level has its own problems because nothing's perfect. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Everyone should be encouraged to post their videos, whatever their ability.
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Good thing you're not a librarian. Originally Posted by ragman1
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Allan Holdsworth was very self deprecating, even though, IMO, Allan Holdsworth was probably the most original and talented UK guitarist. He was also self taught, but his Dad was a good pianist (In reality his Grandad). Originally Posted by ragman1
Allan Holdsworth quote:
" the only thing wrong with this band is the guitar player. There’s probably a lot of people who would agree with that, and I’m with ‘em."
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To be fair, I didn't take Mick's post about a "knowledge gap" as an insult, it might be a spot on critique. I have definitely spent a lot of time learning tunes in a more fleshed out manner, and then improvising on them in a solo setting, which means I'm outlining the chords a LOT so that the listener (assuming I have any) can clearly hear the harmony as I solo. That came from playing solo so much when I started out. I'm learning over time that I can float the changes a lot more than I had been...playing more melodically.
Vertical versus horizontal...
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I too have the "knowledge gap" I mentioned, I know the reason for it have yet to rectify it.
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One of my favorite tunes, again, one I've always played chord-melody style and have enjoyed working on for this thread. It's a super simple melody, made intriguing by the shifting chords behind it. Trying to embellish the melody with enough of the harmony to suggest that was fun, though likely still needing work.
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Cheating a liitle here by not being strictly single line with the melody (though far from chord-melody) and by including the first half-ish chorus of improvising. Just trying to make it a little more like how I actually play melodies and not a strict exercise ... If this puts me on double secret probation I guess don't tell me.
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Man that was so nice. This bro can really play. I always enjoy your clips. Double-stops easily forgiven! Originally Posted by John A.
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Thanks! Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Double stops are cheating.
Just kidding, sounds great. That organ backing track is a fun one, isn't it?
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