Just the melody.

[pamosmusic]

Not really just the melody but another I like to do with a melody is take the recognizable melodic figures and transpose them around so that I can use them to improvise.

Got a few more days to play with Mean to Me, but probably the last post for this one:

[Mick-7]

Sounds good, but how is it different than chord melody?

In that example, I may have outlined the chords a little too much in some places (e.g., at the end of the A section), but if done well, you can suggest the chord changes without actually playing them by referencing primary chord tones that are not in the melody.

Not really just the melody but another I like to do with a melody is take the recognizable melodic figures and transpose them around so that I can use them to improvise.

Which brings us back to rule #1: internalize the melody. If you haven't done that, you'll have a hard time revising it. Actually, I don't think that one could do what you've suggested without knowing the song's chord changes too, so it's a step beyond knowing the melody.

You could use twelve tone strategies to alter the melody:

"There are four main ways in which composers move a tone row around without fundamentally changing it. We call these “operations” (in the mathematical sense rather than the medical one).

Transposition (T) - Take all the pitches and move them up or down by a specified number of semitones. Transposition is a familiar process from tonal music, but note that (as in set theory) we’re always working in transposition by semi-tones here and never diatonic steps.

Inversion (I) - Reverse the direction of the intervals: rising intervals becoming falling intervals, and vice versa. Again, this is just like melodic inversion in other contexts, and once again, we’re only dealing with exact inversion, preserving the interval size in terms of semitones (not using diatonic inversion or generic intervals here).

Retrograde (R) - Reverse the order of pitches so the last comes first, and vice versa. This, too, has a precedent in tonal music with the “retrograde” (also known as the “crab” or “cancrizans”) canon, for instance, though it’s a lot rarer in tonal music than transposition and inversion.

Retrograde inversion (RI) - As the name suggests, this really involves combining two of the operations described above: the retograde and the inversion."

[mr. beaumont]

Or play it backwards

[Mick-7]

Or play it backwards

Please use music nerd terminology here, sir! - backwards = retrograde!

But now you've got thinking about the best way to play Evif Ekat, i.e., Take Five, backwards. I'm thinking it would be best to play each individual 2 or 3 beat phrase backwards to conserve it's character. For example, the pick-up 8th notes in Ebm would be: Ab-Gb-Eb-Bb; first measure would be Ab-A-Bb-A (8th notes) > Db-Bb-Gb (1/4 notes); etc. Maybe keep the dotted half notes in the following measures as is, but reverse the 1/4 and 1/16 note phrases. We shall see....

[mr. beaumont]

I'm actually having a Gatorade right now, but I'm not sure how it applies to music.

[lawson-stone]

Enjoyed spending my lunch hour with "Just Friends" and so, well, here it is, and yes, I must have been having clam chowder for lunch!

I'm trying to work with pushing/pulling on the beat, and also was trying to get some implied chords in there, but I think I need to try that part again. And at the end I stick in a little bit of Jimmy Raney...

[AllanAllen]

Can’t have you all think I never use a metronome.

[RobSilver7]

The idea is very simple, just play the melody to a tune.

OK, I’m with you on playing the melody and making it your own. I don’t think the 30 minute suggestion is necessary… you don’t want to get bored with it.

AND, I strongly suggest that you play it without backing track in all keys.

[mr. beaumont]

AND, I strongly suggest that you play it without backing track in all keys.

But not for 30 minutes?

[lawson-stone]

OK, I’m with you on playing the melody and making it your own. I don’t think the 30 minute suggestion is necessary… you don’t want to get bored with it.

AND, I strongly suggest that you play it without backing track in all keys.

Well sir, the OP sets the basic assignment. Work on the tune thoughtfully for a half hour and play the melody. With or without backing, and really, demanding all 12 keys just means very few will participate. We are not all sitting in with NYC house bands here.

[pamosmusic]

Please use music nerd terminology here, sir! - backwards = retrograde!

But now you've got thinking about the best way to play Evif Ekat, i.e., Take Five, backwards. I'm thinking it would be best to play each individual 2 or 3 beat phrase backwards to conserve it's character. For example, the pick-up 8th notes in Ebm would be: Ab-Gb-Eb-Bb; first measure would be Ab-A-Bb-A (8th notes) > Db-Bb-Gb (1/4 notes); etc. Maybe keep the dotted half notes in the following measures as is, but reverse the 1/4 and 1/16 note phrases. We shall see....

Oh gosh Mick.

First of all, I loooove stuff like this. I think I found it first in Hindemiths theory thing? Can’t remember.

In practice though I stick to ones where I think people register the continuity. Transposition is a big one, and honestly I don’t even thing that’s important so much as the shape of the line — like skip down, step up, rather than a precise transposition. And I think inversion of the shape is also super useful.

Retrograde is one where I don’t think a listener would really process it as being a continuation of the original theme. Though it’s weird and cool and maybe that’s enough reason to play around with it.

[pamosmusic]

But not for 30 minutes?

Lol.

Also I think boredom can kind of be a useful tool. You don’t want to get bored, but also boredom is your brains way of telling you that you’re out of good ideas, and it can be really useful to play through the boredom within reason. That’s when you have to start getting creative to try to stay awake.

For what it’s worth, I did play Mean to Me in Db today with that alternation of melody and improvising, and then transposing of some of the little figures from the melody. So that’s day eight of the melody, 20-30 minutes each and I haven’t even switch tunes.

Not bored yet.

[Mick-7]

Oh gosh Mick.

First of all, I loooove stuff like this. I think I found it first in Hindemiths theory thing? Can’t remember.

In practice though I stick to ones where I think people register the continuity. Transposition is a big one, and honestly I don’t even thing that’s important so much as the shape of the line — like skip down, step up, rather than a precise transposition. And I think inversion of the shape is also super useful.

Retrograde is one where I don’t think a listener would really process it as being a continuation of the original theme. Though it’s weird and cool and maybe that’s enough reason to play around with it.

So stick with the first two strategies for now? (listed below). Fair enough, you can do an awful lot with them.

Transposition (T) - Take all the pitches and move them up or down by a specified number of semitones. Transposition is a familiar process from tonal music, but note that (as in set theory) we’re always working in transposition by semi-tones here and never diatonic steps.

Inversion (I) - Reverse the direction of the intervals: rising intervals becoming falling intervals, and vice versa. Again, this is just like melodic inversion in other contexts, and once again, we’re only dealing with exact inversion, preserving the interval size in terms of semitones (not using diatonic inversion or generic intervals here).

Re: playing something in all 12 keys, I found a half dozen keys that are a whole step apart to be as good as a dozen, and at 5 minutes per key it will only take you 1/2 hour to do them all.

[lawson-stone]

But not for 30 minutes?

Working out how to play a tune in all 12 keys would almost take a half-hour, depending on the tune.

I have always been a little skeptical of the "all 12 keys" rule. I know some famous players have done it with particular tunes, but I wonder how prevalent it is as a general approach?

[mr. beaumont]

Playing stuff in all 12 keys is great practice, I'd never knock it.

When I had more time to practice, I'd do this with a tune every few months or so...like really get into it. And it shows you a LOT.

Sometimes I think just as helpful as all 12 is just learning a tune in 2 or 3 keys to where it isn't possible to do just by sliding up or down a fret or two.

Of course, if you ever fancy working with singers you have to be ready for anything, including singer friendly keys like "F and a half" and "Almost A."

[pamosmusic]

Working out how to play a tune in all 12 keys would almost take a half-hour, depending on the tune.

I have always been a little skeptical of the "all 12 keys" rule. I know some famous players have done it with particular tunes, but I wonder how prevalent it is as a general approach?

I think pretty prevalent. With chord changes I would say it’s definitely extremely prevalent. There just aren’t all that many combinations of chord progressions out there so it’s hard to deny the utility of working out tunes in multiple keys. Makes learning the next one easier.

Melodies I’m not sure.

I do it and it definitely makes me know the melody better. It forces you to think about the intervals and what’s actually going on in the melody, as does playing it on string sets and different positions. But it’s also a way of making sure I spend enough time on something. I think most of these melodies deserve a week or two, so setting up the key a day for twelve days thing just makes certain I’ll stick with it that long.

And all my chord practice comes from the tune and my line building comes from the tune … and I use the same key in the evening if I have time for all my scale junk.

So with a lot of stuff I’ve sort of fallen into an If It’s Not Worth Twelve Keys It’s Not Worth Doing vibe.

[RobSilver7]

Practicing in all keys gets your ears involved and forces you to find notes all over the neck. I don’t get the point of the 30 minute requirement…

[pamosmusic]

Practicing in all keys gets your ears involved and forces you to find notes all over the neck. I don’t get the point of the 30 minute requirement…

Then don’t do it?

[pamosmusic]

Or maybe even do it anyway and see if you discover a point?

[lawson-stone]

I think pretty prevalent. With chord changes I would say it’s definitely extremely prevalent. There just aren’t all that many combinations of chord progressions out there so it’s hard to deny the utility of working out tunes in multiple keys. Makes learning the next one easier.

Melodies I’m not sure.

I do it and it definitely makes me know the melody better. It forces you to think about the intervals and what’s actually going on in the melody, as does playing it on string sets and different positions. But it’s also a way of making sure I spend enough time on something. I think most of these melodies deserve a week or two, so setting up the key a day for twelve days thing just makes certain I’ll stick with it that long.

And all my chord practice comes from the tune and my line building comes from the tune … and I use the same key in the evening if I have time for all my scale junk.

So with a lot of stuff I’ve sort of fallen into an If It’s Not Worth Twelve Keys It’s Not Worth Doing vibe.

maybe some day when I retire from my day-job, I'll have time. Right now I'm just happy to grope my way through a standard without destroying it.

[lawson-stone]

Or maybe even do it anyway and see if you discover a point?

This is actually a good point on the 12 keys thing as well.

Funny how there are always people who, instead of just participating in a "challenge" like this, decide they want to change it. Why not start a challenge where one must pick a tune and play it in all 12 keys but not spend 30 minutes on it!

[lawson-stone]

Sounds good, but how is it different than chord melody?

Easy. In chord-melody, you play the chords with the melody on top, like a pianist. What I think Mick is describing is making a melodic embellishment using a fragment of the chord implied at that point. It's not playing a chord with the melody note on top, it's using chord-tones to provide melodic improvisation.

Am I right? I hope I've understood the idea correctly.

[AllanAllen]

The good: Lawson-Stone: I don’t want to do 12 keys because I’m happy with what I can accomplish now. Here is a video

The bad: RobSilver: Playing something for 30 minutes would bore me. No video.

The ugly: Mick-7: play take five backwards.

[Mick-7]

Easy. In chord-melody, you play the chords with the melody on top, like a pianist. What I think Mick is describing is making a melodic embellishment using a fragment of the chord implied at that point. It's not playing a chord with the melody note on top, it's using chord-tones to provide melodic improvisation.

Am I right? I hope I've understood the idea correctly.

Yes sir, I'll share another example, I'm thinking of a Chick Corea tune. I was hoping to get a microphone first though, I find my guitar tone with direct line input into my recorder to be obnoxious.

The ugly: Mick-7: play take five backwards.

Well, I might surprise you, but after fiddling with it, I suspect you are correct, unlike Take Five, Evif Ekat is not easy on the ears.

Just practice tunes in the most common keys and in keys you find difficult - Gb or whatever - that will not be 12 keys, more like 6 keys as I said earlier.

[AllanAllen]

I think 2 keys is enough. Whatever key fits the E and A shapes. C shape is good too though…

Lawson has the right idea, do what you need to do to like what you can do.

For the sake of this example I learn a tune in C(8th Fret E string), transpose to F(on the A string using position 5 or A shape) and G(also on A but using position 6 or C shape), then Bb and Eb in case the horn needs to read a C chart and I have to transpose down a step.

That has me about covered, but I’m also 5/12 by this point and the rest is just fretboard sliding so I might as well finish it. I’ve already done the hard work after all.

The work is the same for everyone, if you don’t do it, that’s fine, but you’re not going to get struck by lightning and unlock the fretboard.