Why can’t we live in peace?

[DawgBone]

My pal, Howard Alden did the music for that film and I have played the Dupont guitar that he used (Dupont made several guitars for the film, one was destroyed, one is still owned by Howard and one belongs to a musician here in the Bay Area. I have played that one as well.)

Is that the same Howard Alden of Howard Alden and George Van Epps fame? I used to have the 13 strings album back when I still owned CD's that I wasn't trying to sell at shows, LOL.

[deacon Mark]

One of my Harleys has a sticker on it that says "Born Again Pagan". I have always wondered if any members of the Pagans Outlaw Motorcycle club would have an issue with that?

My wife was Baptized as a Methodist (her Mom's faith, her dad was raised Catholic) and she has considered herself a Christian at times and also an Atheist at times. She has five siblings and two of them are very religious (one is a Methodist and one is an Evangelical Protestant). Ny wife's brothers had a "Big Brother" growing up in Montana who is a Mormon. He is still considered a family member. While there are different religions in that family there is no acrimony at all (even against Pagan me). Politics is a different story. These days the Democrat side (who live in Virginia) are at odds with the Republican side (who live in Montana and Eastern Washington). My family is mixed between Jews and Catholics (the Catholic side is Italian). Growing up, I had the choice of being Bar Mitvahed or Confirmed and chose neither. I was lucky as a kid to get presents for both Christmas and Hannukah. I have studied religion to the point where I could probably debate those with a degree in theology quite well. But other than accepting that there is something greater than us that created all of this, I remain unconvinced. I bear good will to all who wish me no harm, no matter their race, creed or National origin.

Should I wish a Catholic Baptism, Deacon you will be the one I will seek. Speaking of a Catholic Baptism, I had a friend in Junior High School who was raised Catholic. Years later he found out that his dad was born a Jew in Hungary and his dad got Baptized at the local Catholic Church when he was a teenager. His dad changed his name from Joseph Weiss to Joseph Pastor when he turned 21. I knew his dad and asked him about the whole "conversion". Joe (RIP) told me that he did it to lose all of the legal disabilities facing Jews in Hungary. When the Nazis deported the Jewish population of Hungary to Auschwitz in 1945, Joe's Baptism papers saved him. His entire family was gassed upon arrival at the death camp (I guess at that point the Germans knew they were going to lose the war and killing Jews was more important than slave labor) and Joe was the only survivor of a large family. (I am always shocked that some people are either stupid enough, hateful enough or both to deny that those gassings took place) Joe became a devout Catholic after that and attended Mass regularly. He told me that accepting entry into the Church saved him in more ways than one. Arguable, being Baptized can carry both earthly utility as well as spiritual utility.

SS, thank you for the details. So, if you want to be a catholic all you need to do is going the OCIA it is process about 8 months. You're my friend, fellow D'angelico enthusiast, and guitar player so really that is all the matters. But your story about your friends father has deep roots. For a more detained and better act of true Christian Spirit one should read the story of THE GREAT GENTILE...............Pope John XXIII and the Jews « The International Raoul Wallenberg Foundation.

The Jews hold this Saint in the highest regard and to me the modern example of what the Higher Power does, that power to me the Trinity.

[Stringswinger]

Is that the same Howard Alden of Howard Alden and George Van Epps fame? I used to have the 13 strings album back when I still owned CD's that I wasn't trying to sell at shows, LOL.

That is the same Howard Alden. One of the finest guitar players that I have ever had the honor to share a stage with.

Here is a video of me playing with Howard:

[ruger9]

If baptism is required for salvation, I have always wondered, what happens to the young ones (babies, toddlers, children) who have not yet been baptized when Jesus returns? They are un-baptized through no fault of their own.

And the same question for those young ones yet without sin...and if everyone is born with original sin, they should be given the opportunity -time- to become saved, right?

[Stevebol]

Stevebol, perhaps you should contact Martin Scorsese about doing a biopic of your life.

That's exactly what AI told me not to do.
Use AI. You don't need me.

[Kirk Garrett]

If baptism is required for salvation, I have always wondered, what happens to the young ones (babies, toddlers, children) who have not yet been baptized when Jesus returns? They are un-baptized through no fault of their own.

And the same question for those young ones yet without sin...and if everyone is born with original sin, they should be given the opportunity -time- to become saved, right?

I wouldn’t take a purely mechanistic view of salvation. Remember the thief crucified next to Jesus is forgiven without baptism or Eucharist. God is merciful. And we know that Jesus specifically welcomed children. In short, people are bound by the sacraments, but God is not.

[Stringswinger]

If baptism is required for salvation, I have always wondered, what happens to the young ones (babies, toddlers, children) who have not yet been baptized when Jesus returns? They are un-baptized through no fault of their own.

And the same question for those young ones yet without sin...and if everyone is born with original sin, they should be given the opportunity -time- to become saved, right?

Baptists do not do infant baptism. And sometimes their children die before becoming old enough to profess belief and get baptized. They believe that babies and young children are born innocent and go straight to heaven if they die before being baptized.

In the days of the founding fathers of the USA, Baptists were a persecuted minority, and they were fearful that our new government might continue the persecutions of the Anglican dominated colonial government. It was in response to these fears that Thomas Jefferson sent a letter to the Baptists of Danbury Connecticut where Jefferson declared that our First Amendment created a wall of separation between Church and State. That letter is considered extra judicial "dicta" in some SCOTUS rulings on First Amendment jurisprudence.

[ruger9]

I wouldn’t take a purely mechanistic view of salvation. Remember the thief crucified next to Jesus is forgiven without baptism or Eucharist. God is merciful. And we know that Jesus specifically welcomed children. In short, people are bound by the sacraments, but God is not.

Oh yeah... I hadn't realized that.

[Strat-itis]

So basically what I said, that there are no hard condemnation rules, within reason? As long as you're working at the important things and not being defiant? :P

[Kirk Garrett]

So basically what I said, that there are no hard condemnation rules, within reason? As long as you're working at the important things and not being defiant? :P

It feels like there’s some pretty hard rules. For example, you don’t want to be blaspheming the Holy Spirit.


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[Strat-itis]

Yeah, I wouldn't want to blaspheme anything. Notice how I said within reason. I wouldn't assume someone becomes Christian to go F JC in the first place tho.

[ruger9]

So basically what I said, that there are no hard condemnation rules, within reason? As long as you're working at the important things and not being defiant? :P

Well, the #1 rule that is absolutely required is to accept the Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, as your Lord & saviour. That's the definition of Christian. If you don't follow THAT rule, you're pretty much out on the tiles.

[Strat-itis]

Haha, agreed.

[RLetson]

If baptism is required for salvation, I have always wondered, what happens to the young ones (babies, toddlers, children) who have not yet been baptized when Jesus returns? They are un-baptized through no fault of their own.

And the same question for those young ones yet without sin...and if everyone is born with original sin, they should be given the opportunity -time- to become saved, right?

Dante tackled this one early in Inferno, but the question goes back at least to Augustine--the problem is the absolute nature of Original Sin. It's one of the rocks on which my own connection to the Church broke. I haven't had time to do a search, but I suspect that Church theologians have addressed it since Aquinas.

On this thread in general: Wow, just wow.

The only intellectually and emotionally honest position I can take is that I don't know everything and am, thanks to the limits of my nervous system and the unthinkable complexity of reality, unable to anyway. So I live in a state of suspended uncertainties, in a territory of best guesses and statistical likelihoods, aware of the world's capacity to produce surprises, some of them quite unwelcome. Omnia exeunt in mysterium and all that. My current playing partner is a Benedictine monk. Fortunately, he has a lot of respect for Jesuit education, so we get along fine, despite my intransigent secular materialism. (He also has a big crush on my Marin classical.)

Favorite theological joke: An agnostic is a guy who doesn't know whether there's a god and says that you don't, either. (It's right up there with Groucho's "Hey, you big bully, what's the idea of hitting that little bully!"--A Night at the Opera.)

BTW, Mark's guitar piece is quite nice--contemplative and, I'm guessing, spontaneous. Also, I suspect, consolatory.

[Stevebol]

Sometimes I think I'm living in a computer simulation.

[[email protected]]

So…..what about PEACE?

[Stevebol]

I'm an Absurdist. I don't know why we can't live in peace.

[Stringswinger]

So…..what about PEACE?

If after 18 pages of discussion, the fairly collegial members of this forum could not figure out a way to livie in peace, the odds of the rest of the world doing so are pretty slim.

[Strat-itis]

^I don't believe in irl human interaction anymore beyond transacting.

[DawgBone]

^I don't believe in irl human interaction anymore beyond transacting.

That's not a christian perspective.

[Stevebol]

Come over to the dark side, Luke. I've been enlightened.

[Strat-itis]

That's not a christian perspective.

[Stevebol]

Stevebol, the self taught legend: I'm currently running a bot stack on my quad monitor of Grok, Claude, Copilot, Meta, and Gemini to write my space time model.

I was banished for pre-crime. Like in the movie Minority Report.

Chat GPT is good enough for what I need. Synth programming for the most part. There's only one modern synth I know of that has a VST plugin that's a replica of the hardware synth. That's what we're using.

[thelostboss]

Saw this on a T-shirt and thought it may fit here:

THE FACT THAT
THERE'S A HIGHWAY
TO HELL AND ONLY A
STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN
SAYS A LOT ABOUT
ANTICIPATED TRAFFIC
NUMBERS

And to Mark = that was a beautiful piece that should be listened to and adsorbed a whole lot more.

[Stringswinger]

Saw this on a T-shirt and thought it may fit here:

THE FACT THAT
THERE'S A HIGHWAY
TO HELL AND ONLY A
STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN
SAYS A LOT ABOUT
ANTICIPATED TRAFFIC
NUMBERS

And to Mark = that was a beautiful piece that should be listened to and adsorbed a whole lot more.

I used to hang around with a couple of members of a notorious outlaw motorcycle club. One of them liked to say "it is better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven".

John Denver once told us that West Virginia was "almost Heaven". I would hope heaven it is a bit better than that. OTOH, Denver told us about getting high by just being in the Rocky mountains. That I can see.