How Exactly Do You "Practice Tunes"?

[pauln]

Right, get playing out with others.

Traditionally, in learning an instrument one does recitals, even from the beginning, to motivate learning to play music for performance.

The reality is that practicing is necessary but a relatively inferior context for assessing what you can do; there are no hard constraints. One may stop, repeat, or skip in the middle of something without consequence.

Similarly to a lessor degree, rehearsing with others; one may pause and play parts of something a few times to fix a problem, etc.

Performance context reveals what you can do, and promotes legitimate confidence (the best kind of confidence )... then anticipate your playing to go like this:

Good while practicing (focus)
Better while rehearsing (relaxed focus)
Best while performing (deep relaxed focus)

[JazzKatua]

There's a great expression in dutch: "Better one Bird (no pun intended ) in the hand than 10 birds in the air"; meaning it's better to know ONE tune very good than knowing 10 tunes weak.
Or as the Great Bruce Lee said: “I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who had practiced one kick 10,000 times.”.
His wisdom is already more than 50 years old!
Focus your practise on only a few tunes for a long time and progress when you notice it's time to move on.

[charlieparker]

You don't need to learn hundreds of songs.

My experience, pick one song and play it well. Then, when you can play that song well, maybe add another song.

Edit: Get a good teacher.

I am kind of going in the opposite direction based on my other thread. I am trying to learn/memorize 50 jazz tunes. By that I mean being able to play the melody and comp. That's it. I don't even want to work on arpeggios or soloing yet.

[Christian Miller]

Try to play melody.

Fail


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AllanAllen]

I am kind of going in the opposite direction based on my other thread. I am trying to learn/memorize 50 jazz tunes. By that I mean being able to play the melody and comp. That's it. I don't even want to work on arpeggios or soloing yet.

You should do less. 50 tunes is enough for a 6 hour gig. Do you have any gigs going on yet?

[Stringswinger]

The best way to learn tunes is on the bandstand of course, but that is an avenue for the advanced player, not so much the beginners and intermediates.

I do not think that one can learn more than about 40 tunes using memorization and muscle memory alone without forgetting some tunes as you learn others. At least that is how it was for me back in my intermediate days.

If you develop your ears to where you can hear chord progressions and to where you can grab the chords you are hearing (and of course play the melody you are hearing), you can learn hundreds of tunes. I was on a high dollar casual last Sunday (Mother's Day gigs are when the hotels have a nice buffet and actually pay a fair wage to the band). The bandleader called a few tunes that I had not played in years. I had to look at an Ireal chart on those tunes for a moment to remind myself of the roadmap, but after that, it was no problem. Mostly I just had to be reminded of what the bridge does. And IME, the best way to develop your ears is on the bandstand. Perhaps some people can do it at home, I was not able to do so. YMMV

Jam sessions can be good if the house band that is backing you is made up of qualified pros. I think with a less than stellar band behind me, I would have trouble learning a new tune. Or even sounding good.

[charlieparker]

You should do less. 50 tunes is enough for a 6 hour gig. Do you have any gigs going on yet?

No gigs. But for me it's about pattern recognition and getting familiar chord patterns and melodies in my ears and increasing my musical memory.

I want to be able to play these in any key. My practice plan is to pick 5 tunes out of the 50 a day and a random key for each and to play through the melody and comp like an imaginary set list.

Of course in the beginning, I will take things slower and pick 5 for the week.

Unfortunately, I injured my back and have been out of commission for a few weeks.

This is inspired by some stuff Bruce Foreman and Joe Henderson said. I will post some progress once I get underway.

[brent.h]

... plan is to pick 5 tunes out of the 50 a day and a random key for each and to play through the melody and comp...

...in the beginning, I will take things slower and pick 5 for the week.

So something like this?:

Song 1 - Eb
Song 2 - C
Song 3 - Ab
Song 4 - F
Song 5 - D

This is going to be extremely difficult for you internalise anything. Each song has its own:

1. melody
2. chords/movement
3. fretting/fingering issues
4. picking mechanics/issues
5. tempo where the tune sounds good

That's 5 variables. Adding the challenge of random keys, you are going to have 6 variables for each tune. That's 30 variables across 5 songs.

And you have to get all 30 variables:
- practised in time
- practised with good tone
- memorised

You are going to face unimaginable difficulty building consistency in your practice and therefore in internalising stuff.

----------

CP, our instrument is isomorphic - you learn one shape, you can repeat it elsewhere. That's the power of the guitar: shapes for easy transposition. It makes this instrument almost 'key-agnostic'. I don't know how to convey to you that when singers come up to the bandstand on my jams, when they call whatever key, my muscle memory of shapes (particularly Freddie Green shells) have allowed me to comp decently and survive. After a while, you will realise that key doesn't matter so much on the guitar.

I am going to repeat my advice to you that I mentioned here, here, and here.

Bro, just friggin learn Moonglow. Now. It's just one shape bro.

It's AABA. All the A sections are the same. Very easy to memorise.

Then take that shape across different string sets. You will master the melody and get the sound of that shape in your head in no time.

You know what is the best part? The picking is exactly the same across the string sets!

Just learn Moonglow bro.

[charlieparker]

So something like this?:

Song 1 - Eb
Song 2 - C
Song 3 - Ab
Song 4 - F
Song 5 - D

This is going to be extremely difficult for you internalise anything. Each song has its own:

1. melody
2. chords/movement
3. fretting/fingering issues
4. picking mechanics/issues
5. tempo where the tune sounds good

That's 5 variables. Adding the challenge of random keys, you are going to have 6 variables for each tune. That's 30 variables across 5 songs.

And you have to get all 30 variables:
- practised in time
- practised with good tone
- memorised

You are going to face unimaginable difficulty building consistency in your practice and therefore in internalising stuff.

----------

CP, our instrument is isomorphic - you learn one shape, you can repeat it elsewhere. That's the power of the guitar: shapes for easy transposition. It makes this instrument almost 'key-agnostic'. I don't know how to convey to you that when singers come up to the bandstand on my jams, when they call whatever key, my muscle memory of shapes (particularly Freddie Green shells) have allowed me to comp decently and survive. After a while, you will realise that key doesn't matter so much on the guitar.

I am going to repeat my advice to you that I mentioned here, here, and here.

Bro, just friggin learn Moonglow. Now. It's just one shape bro.

It's AABA. All the A sections are the same. Very easy to memorise.

Then take that shape across different string sets. You will master the melody and get the sound of that shape in your head in no time.

You know what is the best part? The picking is exactly the same across the string sets!

Just learn Moonglow bro.

You do you. I don't agree with this at all. I agree with the isomorphism comment. The way I see it of I learn 2 or 3 fingerings for the melody and for comping then that should be sufficient for all keys. Most of the melodies in the 50 tunes I plan to learn aren't that challenging from a technical standpoint and I don't plan to do anything fancy on the comping.

What I am really trying to improve is my memory.

I've learned a fair amount of bebop heads and other songs and forget them soon after. I have typically spent several months on each one, Blues For Alice, Freight Trane, Moose the Mooche, Now's the Time, Scrapple, etc.

I am going in a different direction now of picking simpler tunes for the most part but focusing on recall and flexibility of the knowledge aka being able to play it in different positions.

[ragman1]

How Exactly Do You "Practice Tunes"?

I don't really understand this problem. You practice tunes by playing them till you've got it. You need the chords and the melody, like any tune, and you put them together and see what comes out.

In practicing, i.e. playing, you learn, if you know what you're doing. Listening to other peoples' recorded versions helps although you don't have to follow what they do at all.

If you have to wonder what notes to use for solos, etc, that's another thing. That requires study and experience. But usually it's not that hard if you do your homework. Even an AI search will probably tell you what you could play. Most of it isn't rocket science, it's just the usual musical lore.

Mind you, to produce a really interesting, innovative rendition of a tune is another matter but not many achieve that. But any half-decent musician can produce a decent working version.

Reading the OP's posts, it seems to me like he's horribly confused, hideously over-thinking it all, and making a massive problem out of it. Probably a lot of that is caused by following other peoples' ideas and advice instead of quietly working it out himself. Being so dependent on other peoples' ideas is not a good idea. Show some independence, work at it yourself, and see what you can discover for yourself.

People who have got anywhere with anything like this, not just in music, have always done it like that.

[kris]

Practicing the tunes is primarily systematic work.
Everyone here has forgotten about motivation.
In my case, I play and choose the tunes I like, not the ones I have to play.
A good idea is to divide the tunes into fragments.
Apply everything you have learned from the so-called jazz theory in your newly learned songs.
Use your ears and play a lot gigs.

[frabarmus]

There's a great expression in dutch: "Better one Bird (no pun intended ) in the hand than 10 birds in the air"; meaning it's better to know ONE tune very good than knowing 10 tunes weak.

There's a, somewhat, similar saying in italian: "Better an egg today than a hen tomorrow".

[pauln]

What I am really trying to improve is my memory.

I've learned a fair amount of bebop heads and other songs and forget them soon after. I have typically spent several months on each one, Blues For Alice, Freight Trane, Moose the Mooche, Now's the Time, Scrapple, etc.

If you have composed, you will have noticed that you don't forget what you composed compared to things you have learned, a nice hint as to how to retain things through method.

Composing is made up of the elements of your own internal abstract symbology; it is made up of bits of yourself. These things are instantly recognized, familiar, coherent... because they are in the "language" of your own mind, no need to translate.

If you learn something using external, concrete, public symbology (sheets, video lessons, books, etc) those must be translated into your own mind because they are "other". They enter a bit incomplete, vague, partial, and don't become permanent if not internalized before they expire.

Composing uses processes common to transcribing by ear - you should strive to learn things by ear as much as possible. This means listening, then playing it on the guitar immediately. Don't say to yourself, "This is an X chord and the melody note is a Y interval from the root, so Y must be note Z". The object is to move your instrument into your own internal abstract symbology and move playing it into the "language" of your own mind.

[frabarmus]

I have a "video archive" where I store my newly learned tunes. As soon as I've learned a new head (chordmelody) I make a film of me playing it VERY SLOWLY, so I can go back and revise it, in case i forget it. Kind of like having a teacher showing you exactly how to play the tune. Then I do the same for the comping part (with and withoug chord-roots) all over the neck. This way I can move on to the next tune (or arrangement) without losing it. I do this bearing in mind both an eventual solo performance (or accompanying a singer or a horn) or a trio or quartet scenario in which I can relax and lay back a bit more.

[Mick-7]

There's a great expression in dutch: "Better one Bird (no pun intended ) in the hand than 10 birds in the air"; meaning it's better to know ONE tune very good than knowing 10 tunes weak.

Apparently the bird exchange rate here in the U.S. is much higher because our expression is "a bird in the hand is worth 3 in the bush."

I have a "video archive" where I store my newly learned tunes.

Wouldn't it be easier to just write them down?

[JCat]

People here don't share a common understanding of the meaning of "knowing" a tune, consequently we don't share a common approach to "learning" tunes.

Someone mentioned "house band" in the context of jam. If I understand this correctly it's some kind of karaoke, where this house band plays a backing track for you to play along with? If so, it seems to me like the house band needs to know a few songs...but all you have to do is to smile and look good (improvise, adapt and overcome).

(I personally don't do karaoke and my approach to learning tunes would probably be more like what the house band is doing in this example; they either sight read or they make the call which tune to be played next...because like I said above, somebody better have a plan or this would be train wreck.)

[GuyBoden]

I've found that I have to play songs regularly, or they very slowly disappear from my memory.

[frabarmus]

Wouldn't it be easier to just write them down?

I've already got the scores and charts (real books etc.). I find a visual approach more immediate and memory-friendly...

[Mick-7]

I've already got the scores and charts (real books etc.). I find a visual approach more immediate and memory-friendly...

Music notation and/or chord diagrams is my visual approach, it tells me where the notes are on the fretboard - and music notation software can play what I wrote too.

[frabarmus]

@ Mick, either way is good IMO, whatever works best for you is ok. I also use notation and chord diagrams, that's part of my learning process; I sightread the tune first thing but I'm relatively slow at that, whereas making a quick video once I've learned something, while it's still fresh and solid in my mind and fingers, is like having a notebook I can go back to any time and immediately see/hear how it's done and own it faster than sight reading it once more. That way the chart makes more sense to me, once I go back to the chart. Works for me (might work for the OP, too... you never know, just my 2 cents). For me it speeds up a bit the process of learning, absorbing, remembering.

I've got no music software. Years ago, I've had Sibelius software for a year, which I've used mostly for composition, but, at the end of the day, I was spending too much time at the computer and too little time on guitar, getting carried away with all those wonderful composing tools, ending up with compositions that were incredibely sophisticated though too difficult to play

[ragman1]

oops

[AllanAllen]

People here don't share a common understanding of the meaning of "knowing" a tune, consequently we don't share a common approach to "learning" tunes.

Someone mentioned "house band" in the context of jam. If I understand this correctly it's some kind of karaoke, where this house band plays a backing track for you to play along with? If so, it seems to me like the house band needs to know a few songs...but all you have to do is to smile and look good (improvise, adapt and overcome).

(I personally don't do karaoke and my approach to learning tunes would probably be more like what the house band is doing in this example; they either sight read or they make the call which tune to be played next...because like I said above, somebody better have a plan or this would be train wreck.)

The jazz of it all is we can get up on stage, call a tune and a key and not have a train wreck. Overcoming the obstacles of human error is just as much a part of jazz as listening to where the soloist is trying to take you.

Sight reading would be more akin to karaoke than improvisation. So, if you were trying to be condescending, it didn't land.

[AllanAllen]

I've got no music software. Years ago, I've had Sibelius software for a year, which I've used mostly for composition, but, at the end of the day, I was spending too much time at the computer and too little time on guitar

I fall for this too, I set a dedicated practice session where I now I'll lose it to navigating google trying to figure out how to unhide a rest in musescore.... but I want to learn the tool, I have arrangements in my head but I need them written for the group.

[charlieparker]

I've found that I have to play songs regularly, or they very slowly disappear from my memory.

Same. That is why I am changing my practice focus at the moment to include playing different tunes in a small repertoire each week to prevent that from happening.

[charlieparker]

If you have composed, you will have noticed that you don't forget what you composed compared to things you have learned, a nice hint as to how to retain things through method.

Composing is made up of the elements of your own internal abstract symbology; it is made up of bits of yourself. These things are instantly recognized, familiar, coherent... because they are in the "language" of your own mind, no need to translate.

If you learn something using external, concrete, public symbology (sheets, video lessons, books, etc) those must be translated into your own mind because they are "other". They enter a bit incomplete, vague, partial, and don't become permanent if not internalized before they expire.

Composing uses processes common to transcribing by ear - you should strive to learn things by ear as much as possible. This means listening, then playing it on the guitar immediately. Don't say to yourself, "This is an X chord and the melody note is a Y interval from the root, so Y must be note Z". The object is to move your instrument into your own internal abstract symbology and move playing it into the "language" of your own mind.

Whenever I learn a new tune I transcribe the melody at least myself. I also want to start doing that with chords, too. I can usually refigure out it faster when I revisit something or away from the music. What I can't do is instantly replay it on the spot.