How would you name these voicings?

[Mick-7]

If you write G7sus The bassist is Likely to play G. What if you want D in the bass?

Bear in mind that my application is using the same lead sheet for every member of of group - typically a quintet, keys guitar bass drums and a lead instrument. So I'm always on the lookout for a chord symbol that gives me the bass note I want and the rest of the chord I want. Won't always work, but that's the goal.

G7sus/D

As I said in a previous post, on the guitar, that is one of the two common chord names for this chord form:
(1) this 7sus, 2nd inversion (5th in bass) voicing, and (2) the maj6/9 chord a minor 3rd up from it, i.e., Bb6/9, 1st inversion (3rd in bass).

1). G7sus/D | x-5-5-5-6-x | from: G7 | x-5-5-4-6-x | > 4th >3rd

2). Bb6/9 | x-5-5-5-6-x | from: Bb6| x-5-5-3-6-x | > 9th >Root

- Dm11 would be option #3, it's a synonym of the Bb6/9. The G note in it is not considered the 4th of the chord because the voicing contains both the min. 3rd & min. 7th.

[ragman1]

if you play this music eventually you'll see it

If I played this music I can guarantee I wouldn't have this problem! I'm not Brazilian, I'm not writing for Brazilians, and I'd just get a mutually agreed way of playing the damn thing. There are only four people and me. How hard can it be?

[rpjazzguitar]

G7sus/D

As I said in a previous post, on the guitar, that is one of the two common chord names for this chord form:
(1) this 7sus, 2nd inversion (5th in bass) voicing, and (2) the maj6/9 chord a minor 3rd up from it, i.e., Bb6/9, 1st inversion (3rd in bass).

1). G7sus/D | x-5-5-5-6-x | from: G7 | x-5-5-4-6-x | > 4th >3rd

2). Bb6/9 | x-5-5-5-6-x | from: Bb6| x-5-5-3-6-x | > 9th >Root

- Dm11 would be option #3, it's a synonym of the Bb6/9. The G note in it is not considered the 4th of the chord because the voicing contains both the min. 3rd & min. 7th.

This points out again that there is no one right way to notate this voicing. to my way of thinking if I’m using D minor 74 to function as a particular spiced up D minor chord, then I’m going to spell it Dm74,

If I spell it G7 sus/D my guess is that the guitar player is going to play aan F major triad maybe over a G on the sixth string and that the bassist will be on his lowest D. And, that’s not the same sound. it may sound more like hard days night than so what.

given all the ambiguity, someone might reasonably point out that my strategy is going to require some explanation for the band. I agree with that. I would hope that the next time the players see the chart they won’t need another explanation.

[Mick-7]

If I spell it G7 sus/D my guess is that the guitar player is going to play an F major triad maybe over a G on the sixth string and that the bassist will be on his lowest D.

There is no F major triad in a G7sus/D chord, it has the same notes as your Fm74*, and unlike your name, it's common and requires no explanation.

* Correction, wrong key, make that the same notes as a Dm74 (D-G-C-F).

[starjasmine]

There is no F major triad in a G7sus/D chord

I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this is out of context, but Mick is correct only if you want to split hairs: there's an F triad in G9sus, voiced commonly as G F A C. There's no reason you couldn't swap D for the bass note (or, as has been suggested, let the bassist handle that note and not worry about it in the guitar voicing.) In common practice, many players add or subtract extensions at will, so I wouldn't lean too heavily on distinguishing G9 sus from G7 sus.
$0.02
SJ

[rpjazzguitar]

I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this is out of context, but Mick is correct only if you want to split hairs: there's an F triad in G9sus, voiced commonly as G F A C. There's no reason you couldn't swap D for the bass note (or, as has been suggested, let the bassist handle that note and not worry about it in the guitar voicing.) In common practice, many players add or subtract extensions at will, so I wouldn't lean too heavily on distinguishing G9 sus from G7 sus.
$0.02
SJ

Mick was right. I usually play the 9th so I was thinking F/G. And you're right too. All that said I still like m74, depending on function.

[Christian Miller]

This is why we need to go back to figured bass


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[Mick-7]

All that said I still like m74, depending on function.

What's funny about that is we were debating in this other thread whether a II chord could be subbed for a V chord. Your IIm74 chord is synonymous with its relative V7sus chord -- Help to understand a Django Reinhardt (Am7 arp over d7)

[rpjazzguitar]

What's funny about that is we were debating in this other thread whether a II chord could be subbed for a V chord. Your IIm74 chord is synonymous with its relative V7sus chord -- Help to understand a Django Reinhardt (Am7 arp over d7)

If you start So What with x5556x, would you name that chord G7sus/D?

[joe2758]

If you start So What with x5554x, would you name that chord G7sus/D?

That's wild, Dsus4 b9

[Mick-7]

If you start So What with x5554x, would you name that chord G7sus/D?

I haven't really used that chord but it looks like a D7b9sus, it doesn't have the 7th of G so it can't be a G7.

I'm unclear which voicings you'd assign your m74 name to, would you call all of these Gm74?

C7sus | x-x-3-3-1-3 || | x-5-5-5-6-6 || | x-x-8-10-8-8 ||

& | 3-x-3-3-1-x ||

[rpjazzguitar]

I haven't really used that chord but it looks like a D7b9sus, it doesn't have the 7th of G so it can't be a G7.
|

Sorry! Typo. I meant x5556x. Stack of 4ths.

If you play it as the first chord of So What, what do you name it?

D4? Dm74?

[joe2758]

I'd do "add4" or 7/4

[Mick-7]

Sorry! Typo. I meant x5556x. Stack of 4ths.

If you play it as the first chord of So What, what do you name it?

D4? Dm74?

I opined on that earlier, I'd call it a Dm11 because it contains both the 3rd and 7th. Lowering the note G and making it a D7#9 works too - or the Em11 that precedes it: E7#9 > Dm11. You could also consider the Em11 the V of II, i.e., A7sus > Dm11.

Is this also a Dm74? - | x-10-12-10-13-12 |

I'd do "add4" or 7/4

That is what the chart says - call me a Dorian anarchist.

[rpjazzguitar]

I

Is this also a Dm74? - | x-10-12-10-13-12 |

That is what the chart says - call me a Dorian anarchist.

So that's G D F C E. At first glance it looks like G13sus.

I'm not able to provide a comprehesive strategy for naming these things. I'm reacting to what I've seen and what happens when I write a chart and I want specific voicings.

It is an area in which different musicians have different viewpoints often strongly held. My view is colored by the fact that I play a lot of Brazilian music. I see 74 frequently and m74 occasionally. Also, that it's important to me to distinguish between a 4 and an 11. And, I admit to sometimes having used D4 and Dm74 to denote exactly the same notes. And, no matter how I do it, somebody is likely to complain.

[ragman1]

You two really ought to grow up. I've just been right through the lead sheets of So What. The most popular symbol by far is Dm11 followed by Dm7(add4).

rp, I think you ought to get on with rehearsing your tune rather than wasting time on this anal discussion. Call the chord what you want.

m74

There's no such thing. The 4 replaces the m3rd. You can't have both. I said that before but you ignored it. No wonder you're all lost.

[Mick-7]

So that's G D F C E. At first glance it looks like G13sus.

Oh, sorry, no minor 3rd in that chord.... what I am asking is if you think of Dm74 as being a specific voicing - stacked 4ths - or would you call all of these chords Gm74?

C7sus | x-x-3-3-1-3 | | x-5-5-5-6-x | | x-x-8-10-8-8 | | 3-x-3-3-1-x |

[rpjazzguitar]

You two really ought to grow up. I've just been right through the lead sheets of So What. The most popular symbol by far is Dm11 followed by Dm7(add4).

rp, I think you ought to get on with rehearsing your tune rather than wasting time on this anal discussion. Call the chord what you want.



There's no such thing. The 4 replaces the m3rd. You can't have both. I said that before but you ignored it. No wonder you're all lost.

Like it or not, it exists in the musical literature of Brazil. 74 Is common. m74 is less common.

I've never seen Dm7(add4), but I think it's clear. Takes 9 characters. Dm74 takes 4 characters. But, you probably won't have to explain the former.

[rpjazzguitar]

Oh, sorry, no minor 3rd in that chord.... what I am asking is if you think of Dm74 as being a specific voicing - stacked 4ths - or would you call all of these chords Gm74?

C7sus | x-x-3-3-1-3 | | x-5-5-5-6-x | | x-x-8-10-8-8 | | 3-x-3-3-1-x |

First one is F Bb C G. Not a chord I use, At least not with the G on top. First I'd have to pick a root, maybe even one within the chord. And it depends on function. Off the top of my head I'd be more likely to use that as C7sus than anything else. With a G in the bass I might think about Gm47, But last time I tried that my keyboard player wouldn't stop complaining.

Second one is the chord we've been talking about. If I was thinking of it as a kind of tonic chord I might go with D4 or Dm74. This is common enough that it really should have an accepted name.

I do use the next two voicings in the post, both as 7sus, although other names work too.

I'm not suggesting that my approach is comprehensive or systematic or anything like that. If I ever thought that, this forum has convinced it's wrong. I can say that it has worked with a bunch of musicians.

[wolflen]

I opined on that earlier, I'd call it a Dm11 That is what the chart says - call me a Dorian anarchist.

I concur..I have seen many charts that call DGCF Dmi11..though..the G in the mid voicing can be argued as a sus4 flavor..

ahhh chord nomenclature lives!!!

BTW..I used to be an anarchist..but gave it up..too many rules.

[Christian Miller]

Sorry! Typo. I meant x5556x. Stack of 4ths.

If you play it as the first chord of So What, what do you name it?

D4? Dm74?

I think stack of fourths works very well as a mild epithet.

As in ‘what have you done now, you stack of fourths?’

A little less loaded than calling someone a French Sixth.


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[Christian Miller]

I'd do "add4" or 7/4

It’s not an add 4 though is it? The fourth is replacing the 5th effectively.

So you end up with m7add4(no 5)

Unless you add the fifth on top and end up with

m7add4add12(no 5)

Look I’m bad but I’m not a monster and also I would like people to hang out with me and play my music. So I’m not doing that. I suppose we are stuck with m11 as it turns out -7/4 is a sus chord or something?

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[Mick-7]

At any rate, whatever you do, don't play the wrong 'So What' chord like Herbie did.....

"I’m onstage at a concert hall in Stockholm, Sweden, in the mid-1960s playing piano with the Miles Davis Quintet. We’re on tour, and this show is really heating up. The band is tight—we’re all in sync, all on the same wavelength. The music is flowing, we’re connecting with the audience, and everything feels magical, like we’re weaving a spell.

Tony Williams, the drumming prodigy who joined Miles as a teenager, is on fire. Ron Carter’s fingers are flying up and down the neck of his bass, and Wayne Shorter’s saxophone is just screaming. The five of us have become one entity, shifting and flowing with the music. We’re playing one of Miles’ classics, “So What,” and as we hurtle toward Miles’ solo, it’s the peak of the evening; the whole audience is on the edge of their seats.

Miles starts playing, building up to his solo, and just as he’s about to really let loose, he takes a breath. And right then I play a chord that is just so wrong. I don’t even know where it came from—it’s the wrong chord, in the wrong place, and now it’s hanging out there like a piece of rotten fruit. I think, “Oh, shit.” It’s as if we’ve all been building this gorgeous house of sound, and I just accidentally put a match to it.

Miles pauses for a fraction of a second, and then he plays some notes that somehow, miraculously, make my chord sound right. In that moment I believe my mouth actually fell open. What kind of alchemy was this? And then Miles just took off from there, unleashing a solo that took the song in a new direction. The crowd went absolutely crazy.

I was in my early twenties and had already been with Miles for a couple of years by this time. But he always was capable of surprising me, and that night, when he somehow turned my chord from a wrong to a right, he definitely did. In the dressing room after the show I asked Miles about it. I felt a little sheepish, but Miles just winked at me, a hint of a smile on his chiseled face. He didn’t say anything. He didn’t have to. Miles wasn’t one to talk a whole lot about things when he could show us something instead.

It took me years to fully understand what happened in that moment onstage. As soon as I played that chord I judged it. In my mind it was the “wrong” chord. But Miles never judged it—he just heard it as a sound that had happened, and he instantly took it on as a challenge, a question of “How can I integrate that chord into everything else we’re doing?” And because he didn’t judge it, he was able to run with it, to turn it into something amazing." - Herbie Hancock

[Mick-7]

A little less loaded than calling someone a French Sixth.

Oh, that's not a compliment? All this time I thought it was! This changes my opinion of so & so.

[ragman1]

It’s not an add 4 though is it? The fourth is replacing the 5th effectively.

Precisely. I wondered if someone would spot it. I was just listing the most used symbols.

Incidentally, the most used after Dm11 and Dm7(add4) is Dm7. The piano transcriptions and some lead sheets, including the RB, simply notate the chord without naming it. With the bass line.