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Inspired by the Jimmy Bruno thread, but not wishing to derail it further, here's a question I often ponder on. Why do people even want to do gigs?
Assuming it's not for the money - if it is then the answer is obvious, and of course I understand. I know a fair few people who make a living through music and gigging is a big part of that. But they don't play jazz.
But if you play jazz because you love it why pull one's hair out in despair at the lack of gigs? Why not just go to jam sessions, or call up a few friends and sit around the house playing? There are plenty of ways to make music with others without needing a gig? If one plays solo then you don't even need others - do you not enjoy it just as much playing those tunes irrespective of an audience?
I don't know the answer, but I'm intrigued by what people think. Why do we feel the need to have other people listen if we're doing this for love?
As an aside, it's not just jazz. My main style is solo finger-picking blues. There's a tiny bar in town that can just accommodate one performer, maybe two at a push, who recently put out a call for musicians for a blues night. I dropped the organiser a line, but alas didn't get the gig. He told me he had over one hundred people apply. A hundred solo / duo performers in the blues idiom looking for work in this small town ( he was up front about payment and it wouldn't have costed in for anyone to travel).
Anyway, why do we feel the need for an audience if we're not doing this because we need money?
Derek
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02-21-2025 03:58 AM
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Because gigs
give you something to do
they're high energy
they're slightly addictive
they're fun
you're giving something out to people
it makes you feel worthwhile
and you get paid for it
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Gigs can focus a band's attention and get people to shape up. If you just meet up and practice or play together without an audience, it's easy to let the commitment slide a bit. Yeah, I'll get this down till next time. Knowing that people will be listening to you, and perhaps even pay you generally get players to nail down the things they need to present themselves favourably.
Personally, I have no need to gig. Done it a lot, though mostly in a pop and rock context. I don't feel the need to do it again. It was fun when the bands were in the spirit, and I liked seeing audiences entertained. Especially a crowded dancefloor. But I've done it, and the hours etc is increasingly incompatible with a middle aged day jobber. I mainly gig because the better class of players, the ones I like to play with, tend to want to do so.
I would deeply, deeply miss playing with other people. Making music together is a huge motivator for me. Perhaps the greatest. I have no need for an audienceLast edited by Average Joe; 02-21-2025 at 05:10 AM.
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It’s a lot of fun.
i do a monthly solo or duo (w sax) gig at a client’s cheese shop, and stopped taking her money for them (get paid in charcuterie and artisanal cheese which is prob worth more than the $150 she offers, if it’s a duo the sax gets paid).
She does the marketing, a few regular local guitar/jazz fans come, I invite a bunch of friends and family, and the place is always packed w a great atmosphere on a friday “happy hour.” It’s easy and really fun for me, and the best business days of the month for them.
its just a really fun atmosphere close to home. Hard to beat that, even tho one couldn’t make a living off it.
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This
I ain't goin out there tho lol. I just play for the luv like you said.
Originally Posted by ragman1
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That about sums it up for me Originally Posted by Average Joe
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Unfortunately, or fortunately, sometimes it's just as basic as You don't gig, you don't eat. It's also true that the jazz gigs, at least in my case, are only maybe 10% of work. Not a problem at all for me, I enjoy many other kinds of music and I'm doing pretty good as a band guitarist.
But as far as purely jazz, honestly I don't know. I just visited NYC where I lived for more than 20 years before settling in China, I reconnected with my old friends musicians, and I find it kinda depressing there. No one said they have enough work to survive, they are all looking for a good teaching jobs. The prices, especially on rent are insane, and the average jazz gig don't pay that much. But most importantly, there are just not enough of them.
Still, you can't just stop, one gig in front of people worth many hours of practicing at home, or so they say. Gotta press on.
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This is my situation in a rural part of the UK
My first residency in the UK
here is a clip from the last gig
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I don’t have to play music to make a living, but my life seems worthless without music…
Playing for other people is a means of deep communication that brings us together in a flow state (if everything is right). You don’t get that from practicing, or playing by yourself.
of course, this is easier to achieve in a concert situation than a cheese shop...
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I don't need to gig... frankly, I groan a little every time a gig is booked, because I know we have to get there early, haul and set up gear (like the entire PA system), someone will no doubt complain about the volume, then I'll get home late. I'm over that whole "thing" (I'm 55).
BUT... if I lost my Tuesday night rehearsals... I'd be devastated. The "playing with others" thing- the energy and interaction- are priceless. Playing alone at home can't compete, not even in the same ballpark.
I will admit occasionally a gig is "worth it"- mostly if it's a rowdy crowd when starts actually listening and getting involved... which doesn't usually happen until towards the end of the night, when people start getting tanked up LOL. But THAT is loads of fun. Being background music for dinner... who cares?
I should qualify all this that I'm taking about playing in a rock band, not a jazz trio.
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It is really nice when you can earn some bread doing something you actually like!
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They give me direction in my practice.
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I agree completely, except for this…. Originally Posted by docsteve
My trio has 2 regular gigs right now - a high end retirement community and the food court at a Whole Foods. I also have a solo gig at a small (less than 40 seat) country French restaurant and I / we get called for single dates at a few local spots. I / we interact with the audience at every gig. Comments and requests help drive us to remember tunes we haven’t played in a long time, try new things, sight read new tunes, and generally polish our skills. This is an integral part of playing at those small places, but it’s rare when we’re on stage and they’re “out there”. Originally Posted by docsteve
One big differentiator between most hobbyists and seasoned pros is that every note a pro plays is sounded with confidence. Tempo and flow are maintained through clams, and songs sound like finished works rather than works in progress (even if they are works in progress). We control the program at concerts, prepare and rehearse it, and hit the stage ready to do it the way we practiced it. But playing in small local venues (like cheese shops) brings the audience into the performance in many ways, from requests to spontaneous rhythmic clapping that pushes a driving tune higher and higher to the occasional vocalist who hesitatingly steps up and is really good. Playing unrehearsed tunes with that steady confidence and making every tune sound polished is a real challenge in a cheese shop.
This requires the ability to think and respond on the fly, eg to simplify complex changes (especially on the first heads and solos on tunes we haven’t played together), and to play intros and endings that sound like you’ve played them a million times even though they’re improvised. We really work together to keep each other in whatever groove we’ve chosen. Small venues facilitate this.
I / we try a lot of tunes in alternate times and styles. Playing the So What Waltz, Autumn Leaves in 5 or 7, and The Chicken as a straightforward driving swing always draws questions and comments. And the audiences at small local venues seem to inspire and push performance like this in a more direct way than they do when we’re on a stage and separated from them through an entire set.
Steve, you joined us on stage at the club in which I played regularly for years. You experienced the isolation that those bright spotlights impart. It often doesn’t even feel like there’s anybody out there until you hear the applause. For me, that’s not nearly as much fun as being in the midst of an attentive and appreciative group who interrupt their routine to stop, listen, and interact with us.
Gigs make me a better player, and I’ll take the cheese shop!
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not really sure why you had to be insulting. Originally Posted by docsteve
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Playing with people makes you better
Playing with people in front of other people makes you better better.
As for the why not just jams, a lot of jams suck.
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Never, I didn’t even have that night in mind when I wrote my post. Around here, I have played in churches and community centers when the music maybe wasn’t the main attraction, but not just wallpaper either (that’s what I associated with the cheese shop). Lights were on, I could see the audience and they could see me. If you have people willing to pay attention, and you wish to communicate, the venue doesn’t matter.
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Sorry if I came across as insulting - that was the farthest thing from my mind. I’d gladly play in a cheese shop in the situation that you described. As I just replied to Nevershouldhavesoldit, I imagine the communication with the audience to be easier if they actually pay attention to the music - be it in a cheese shop or at Madison Square Garden. If you have that, give me the shop’s address and I’ll sub for you. Originally Posted by spencer096
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Pre Covid I was pacing along at 100 jazz only gigs a year. Over the years the pace would ebb and flow but it was a constant part of life playing music for decades. It all abruptly ended in March of 2020, and now five years later I still do zero gigs. I’m still digesting the impact of this massive change. But I feel good.
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For me it has been a natural progression. Practice alone for years, with teachers, play with others, play gigs, going to a music college, making a living from it afterwards. Gigs have transformed the playing music experience from something just involving me (and the band), to something that involves everyone in the audience, which i find much more beautiful, deep and satisfying. Bringing people together has become the meaning of a live music experience. All the real pros i 've ever seen were great at that, and very much focused towards it. Even if in surface it might look otherwise, they still had a gift for it.
Gigging comes with a lifestyle (that i very much enjoy), challenges and a hard reality check. Many great musicians never really cared for it, so they go towards composing, teaching, studio work etc. As a sole source of income it only works for the most talented and dedicated people that are great players, really professional and dependable, great in networking and also in the right city and social circles. And many of them today also teach a lot, as it is not the best era for making a living from live music. For me some years have been more about teaching, some more about playing, various styles of music, i enjoy both. Probably somewhere between 300+ to 100 gigs a year, highest to lowest. Teaching has been great both in what it gives back, and in affording me to only play music i like. But i 've always been very hard working and kept options open. Where i live, i don't think i would have been professionally happy if i was only doing one of them, and i 've tried it.
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Its a living. It is more fun than most other ways to earn a living, but for almost all of us, it pays less than most ways to earn a living. So it is (for many of us) something of a calling.
Some years ago, I was a sideman in a trio gig at a small French restaurant in downtown San Francisco. We were paid and fed. The meal took place at the end of the gig and we were seated at the bar. The owner, a Frenchman with a thick accent came up to thank us and compliment the playing (we played a few French tunes during our three sets. It is always smart to play tunes that you think the cat writing the check will like). The owner then asked us why chose to do what we did. There was a long silence and finally, I broke the silence telling that owner that I was not sure we made that choice. There are many paths to take in this life and while we have many choices, some things are, seemingly, chosen for us.
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Some of the most enjoyable sessions I have had have been rehearsals or private jams with a small number of people; a stress-free opportunity to enjoy playing my favourite music. At the present time I'd be delighted if I could get together with a few people and play some jazz guitar as I very much need the practice and this would be the best way to get it, but it's hard to find people or a time when they're free. Originally Posted by digger
In general, I find public jams to be stressful and unpleasant, for a variety of reasons. I would completely avoid them if I could, but they are necessary for networking.
Gigs are much more fun than jams as they should have both an appreciative audience and a known quantity when it comes to the material and the musicians. The presence of an audience is not essential for enjoyment of the music, but it does feel good to pull something decent off in front of an audience.
Getting paid is a nice bonus. As I have an adequately-paid job and music is only a hobby the priority is enjoyment and relaxation, and so being treated well by the venue is what I'm mainly looking for (i.e. refreshments, parking, not being mucked about). The only concern here is that I don't want to undercut the local professionals in any venue where they might want to play.Last edited by gvurrdon; 02-21-2025 at 12:50 PM.
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The problem is that in the past there was a much larger jazz market for jazz musicians. Originally Posted by digger
You could connect love to jazz music and earn money for a modest life.
Festival concerts, club concerts, studio recordings, TV etc.
In my case, I do not play so many concerts in comparison to the old good times.
Everything is changing and the musicians are getting old ... terrible.
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I've never gone to jam/open mic nights unless I've been in the house band. But it's something I've thought about doing recently but one new band is keeping me busy and a new trio is in the offing.
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You can say that again. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Okaya lot of jams suck
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Open jams are boring, sit at a bar for 3-4 hours so I can play 1-2 songs. I'm sober, and bars are extremely dull when you are sober. Drunk people are like parrots telling the same stories over and over.
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