Why the need to gig?

[pamosmusic]

If only there was a jam where I played with people I choose, who challenge me, and the setlist is predetermined, and I got to play the whole time.

Sounds boring.

Just kidding. But I’m playing in two weeks with a really awesome bassist and drummer, both of whom I met at the local session.

Have to meet people somehow.

Though once you’ve got a network you can just take recs from the people you’re already playing with. Still jams are fun.

[digger]

As I've been thinking about this...

<SNIP>

I have fun playing alone at home, which is mostly non-band related: learning songs I've always wanted to learn but never got around to, simply becoming better at this thing called "playing" (that never ends), and someday that's likely all I'll have. Can't gig forever. The older I get, it's more about the connection to the instrument and the music itself: even playing alone. It's almost a meditation, a therapy. I will be sad when I can no longer play with others, but I still have plenty "to do" on my own. Still lots of musical joy and contentment to be had.

Snipped out a lot of good stuff, but the whole thing resonated with me and closely followed my journey, with different timescales. And yes, though I still gig and enjoy playing with other people that connection with the instrument and the music that you talk about is the same for me.

Derek

[AllanAllen]

To those reading this who would like to gig, but have no gigs, I say this: Remember that the grass is always greener on the other side. And to those who are gigging and loving it: Carry on!

Yeah, gigging is a whole lot like work and there have been times where I’m about to clean up and load the car and I think, I could be watching a movie right now…

[DawgBone]

Gigs have always been the reason I play....period. Maybe I'm a showoff but then, my favorite gig is a 'behind the ferns' wallpaper gig in a restaurant where I'm not noticed. I also have done a lot of musical theater which has involved being on stage and interacting with the actors. Whatever, it allows me perform for people in whichever way. I haven't had a gig since Covid and I've barely played. The singing half of my oldies duo (a life long full time singer) had to quit for health reasons and that left me hanging. I keep saying that I want to do a solo instrumental act at assisted living venues but not sure they want to hear Chet/chord melody/ragtime for an hour. I could also play at my local VA hospital (I'm a disabled Vietnam vet) but I'm guessing they would only appreciate Hendrix and 'Free Bird' as opposed to my fingerstyle rendition of 'Vincent', 'The Entertainer', or 'Moonlight In Vermont'. I'm really only interested in picking up the guitar if I need to prepare for a gig - otherwise, I just watch YT videos.

Are you kidding? People would love to hear any of that stuff if you play it well, regardless of the location.

[DawgBone]

Yeah, gigging is a whole lot like work and there have been times where I’m about to clean up and load the car and I think, I could be watching a movie right now…

Ugh, tv and movies are useless, passive entertainments.

[ruger9]

I've actually got a gig tonight; while part of me has been dreading the WORK involved (packing up, loading in, setting up, breaking down, loading out, unpacking at home), I woke up today looking very much forward to the actual playing tonight. Good friends, fun times, now if I can just get by without having one of my brutal migraines I'll be golden. (That's what happened the last time I played this place: migraine started halfway through the first set, then lasted for 3 days )

[pamosmusic]

Out of curiosity — you referred to it as a cover band — is it a jazz gig?

[Gilpy]

Gigging makes you a better musician.
You have to learn challenging material and perform at a higher level than if you were just playing alone.
You get to work (and get paid) with other musicians, who are some of the best and most interesting people you’ll ever meet.
You get to do something that makes people happy, including yourself. And people will come up and tell you you’re great, whether it’s true or not.
Gigging will focus your musical energy towards a goal.
After playing professionally for 50 years, I am leaving the low paying jobs to the younger guys who have more energy for that, and only doing the good gigs, which are getting scarce.

[ruger9]

Out of curiosity — you referred to it as a cover band — is it a jazz gig?

It's not. But aren't most jazz gigs "cover" gigs? The only people who don't play standards (covers) are the ones who compose... Julian Lage, et al.

[pamosmusic]

It's not. But aren't most jazz gigs "cover" gigs? The only people who don't play standards (covers) are the ones who compose... Julian Lage, et al.

Thats why I asked.

I don’t really think it’s the same thing, but wouldn’t be the craziest thing to refer to them in the same way.

I would say that there’s some musical value to a jazz jam session for which there isn’t a great analog in the pop/rock world though

[rpjazzguitar]

Standards, covers. The same thing?

Probably doesn't matter. But when somebody says "standards gig" I know what to expect.

When I hear "cover gig" I think, which versions of which tunes?

[Cunamara]

Because gigs

give you something to do
they're high energy
they're slightly addictive
they're fun
you're giving something out to people
it makes you feel worthwhile

and you get paid for it

The average gig checks off about 3 out of 7 from that list.

I think the main reason jazz musicians want to do gigs they have put thousands and thousands of hours into practicing, learning tunes, etc., and want to honor that work and effort. And some of us need an audience to recognize us and our talent; we want that reinforcement.

Since I have persistence rather than talent, I decided a long time ago I didn't really need the approval of others because I'm probably not gonna get it anyway. I enjoy playing music with other people and frequently the price of being able to do that is having to gig, which generally speaking I really don't enjoy all that much. After the third jam session with most of the same personnel, somebody inevitably says "hey, we should get some gigs." Yeah, buddy, go for it and call me when you've got some lined up.

[Christian Miller]

They paying me? If yes - how much and how far do I have to drive? How long do I have to be there? etc…. I make a decision based on all these factors. It’s different now I have kids.

If not and I’m playing for fun… well it better be fun! Like a big band blow or a cool weird project. Maybe building a skill or learning a new style of music is another motivation to not do it for up front money. Which I also find fun.

Doesn’t have to be too much to get me out the front door tbh lol

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[kris]

If I love jazz music and I have a lot of time because of the lack of concerts, then I am looking for a place where there is a jazz jam session.
It seems to me that this is the psyche of being a jazz musician.

[Christian Miller]

Apparently George Benson is incapable of passing a jam session without sitting in haha


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[ruger9]

Thats why I asked.

I don’t really think it’s the same thing, but wouldn’t be the craziest thing to refer to them in the same way.

I would say that there’s some musical value to a jazz jam session for which there isn’t a great analog in the pop/rock world though

While the arrangements of pop/rock songs are pretty static, we do get to improvise in many of the solo sections. It's funny, it doesn't take much to get a rise from the musicians... last night, the drummer played a really cool fill somewhere he normally doesn't, and I immediately noticed, looked back at him with an "atta' boy"... it's fun. Then there's always one song where someone misses a cue, goes to the wrong part, and everyone has to quickly adjust LOL. It's not as cut-and-dried as it may seem.

And, IDK how jazz gigs are with audience feedback/participation, but there's nothing like a bunch of people getting up and dancing to the band, having an obvious great time... there really is an energy transference band>audience>band, like a feedback loop. It's the only reason I bother gigging.

[pamosmusic]

Sure. I’ve been in bands like that.

The jazz jam session — and honestly pickup trio gigs and such — are different because you’ve quite plausibly never played with the people in question, or the same combination of people in question, or on the same tunes.

But the operative thing is that there is a canon you have to be familiar with or you can’t really function at a jazz jam or a pickup gig. You usually go into these things without a setlist and without rehearsal, so knowing the canon is crucial. There really isn’t an analog for that in the pop/rock world.

The closest is probably bluegrass or old time music. Blues and country maybe after that.

For this trio gig, I’ll probably play fifteen or twenty tunes, and I sent the new drummer a list of 50 and it didn’t include blueses or the All the Things Autumn Leaves set, which are always fair game.

Im subbing for the host of the session this coming Friday and I won’t know who I’m playing with in the house band until I show up, let alone who’s coming to the jam, let alone what will be played.

[pamosmusic]

So I guess the point is that, if you’re playing jazz, that literacy with the canon is super important and it’s really difficult to know if you’ve got it up to par without getting out and playing

[ruger9]

But the operative thing is that there is a canon you have to be familiar with or you can’t really function at a jazz jam or a pickup gig. You usually go into these things without a setlist and without rehearsal, so knowing the canon is crucial. There really isn’t an analog for that in the pop/rock world.

.

There actually is- I've seen it, and the other guitar player in my band has done it . We have a couple of bands around here that are pop/rock cover "pick up" bands. Usually one guy books the gig, then calls all the musicians he knows to see who's interested. The band who shows up is an amalgam of people who have played together and not. But they've all been playing covers for years, so between the 4-5 people, they can cobble together a setlist. I recently saw a band like this, the drummer was one of the "new guys", so when a song came up he wasn't familiar with, the band leader had a short talk with him about the arrangement, and off they went.

There's another band around here that works under the same principle- they actually call themselves "The Revolving Door Band" because the personnel is never the same, it all depends on who answers the call for that gig. I'm not interested in that kind of work, because I don't gig for the money. But if if I DID, I would definitely network with those players and start doing pick-up gigs.

[pamosmusic]

Sure. The broadway bands in Nashville work that way. But it’s a pretty specific situation and we’re talking about the way jazz works on a fundamental level, from the smallest trio gigs to the New York cutting room jam session.

They work very differently, and jazz at its core is built on a shared language, which is as much a shared repertoire as an idiomatic vocabulary

[ruger9]

Sure. The broadway bands in Nashville work that way. But it’s a pretty specific situation and we’re talking about the way jazz works on a fundamental level, from the smallest trio gigs to the New York cutting room jam session.

They work very differently, and jazz at its core is built on a shared language, which is as much a shared repertoire as an idiomatic vocabulary

All music is a shared language. That's how people can play together at all. When you say a "top 40 band" it's no different than a jazz trio playing "standards". Everyone knows the same music.

Where jazz differs (can be) in the slightly improvised arrangements and melodies. Pop music doesn't really have that "luxury." I'm not arguing the situations are exactly the same, but I think they are more similar than you think they are. But then I appreciate most forms of music, not elevating one "above" another. Except rap & hip-hop. That's below everything LOL

[pamosmusic]

When you say a "top 40 band" it's no different than a jazz trio playing "standards".

Top 40 from what decade? Uptown Funk? Nirvana? Earth Wind and Fire? Hold Your Hand?

Are you playing Our Song Taylor Swift or Anti Hero Taylor Swift?

I'm not arguing the situations are exactly the same, but I think they are more similar than you think they are.

I did say they weren’t completely different, but I’m not really sure how anyone with experience gigging in jazz could say that the performance practice with respect to repertoire works the same way at all.

The line between pop and jazz is super blurry and I like it that way. Keith Jarrett playing Bob Dylan — Brad Mehldau playing the Beatles — etc etc. Jazz should embrace pop music and often does but the shared repertoire in standards is kind of its own thing. Not unique — like I said, Bluegrass would be an interesting comparison — but different than the way rock and pop bands function generally.

But then I appreciate most forms of music, not elevating one "above" another. Except rap & hip-hop. That's below everything LOL

lol indeed — Ron Carter, Ambrose Akinmusire, Robert Glasper, Jason Moran, and Walter Smith would disagree.

And … if you hate hip hop and rap that much, you might be surprised by the actual content of top 40 pop. When they opened up the ratings in the late eighties, the little classic rock dudes were shocked and dismayed to learn that hip hop and country were way more popular than rock.

[pamosmusic]

Where jazz differs (can be) in the slightly improvised arrangements and melodies. Pop music doesn't really have that "luxury."

And this would be a place where they’re extremely different. Sure if you count off If I Were a Bell in New York, everyone will drop into the Miles Davis intro.

But if you’re going to play There Will Never Be Another You, or Out of Nowhere, there isn’t really any specific recording or any specific arrangement other than people’s understanding of how stuff like this works (give me a pedal out front, let’s do the last eight out front, trumpet cadenza up top, okay right on it). The changes aren’t set in stone, the melody is flexible, who plays what when isn’t decided yet, etc etc

I guess the way this ties back to the OP is that jazz is a live, communal music. Jam sessions are absolutely community, but also a gig is community and I get to play fifteen songs instead of two. So it’s a volume thing maybe. Anyway — it’s music you play with other people. I think that’s why Jeff always says something along the lines of how he loves solo guitar but he’s not sure it’s jazz.

[Christian Miller]

The line between pop and jazz is super blurry and I like it that way. Keith Jarrett playing Bob Dylan — Brad Mehldau playing the Beatles — etc etc. Jazz should embrace pop music and often does but the shared repertoire in standards is kind of its own thing. Not unique — like I said, Bluegrass would be an interesting comparison — but different than the way rock and pop bands function generally.=.

There's definitely a jazz way to play a pop/rock tune. I suggested the idea of one of my students (a rock guy) playing a song they liked with a trio, with them on the melody, and it was like I'd grown an extra head. The approach to covering songs seems to be - play the guitar part. Not everyone, and creative covers are a thing outside a jazz, but I think most people see playing a song as recreating the record. The jazz approach is to try and take the essence of a song and use it as a basis for music.

I suppose it's the same as the difference between a side century Broadway pianist and a mid century jazz pianist playing a Cole Porter song.

[pamosmusic]

The jazz approach is to try and take the essence of a song and use it as a basis for music.

That’s a good way of putting it. And there are occasions when people do such a good job of that that their arrangement becomes part of the song’s essence — Miles on If I Were a Bell, the Cannonball Autumn Leaves, the Miles changes to Stella, McCoys vamp on All or Nothing at All.

But that’s pretty uncommon