The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary

View Poll Results: Do you learn new songs by ear or by paper?

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  • By ear

    6 14.63%
  • By paper

    6 14.63%
  • Both

    29 70.73%
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    It’s a good thing, but as we all know you can have too much of a good thing.

    Not everyone has access to a mentor and if you can learn 2 or 3 songs by video THEN apply the knowledge to a lead sheet, you can be on your way.

    Falling into a trap of endless theory videos and commenting “Do you have tabs for this” on things completely out of your skill level will get you nowhere.
    I can assure you I have no intention of doing that.

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  3. #52

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    Something I have done for a very long time that has helped me learning stuff is to go through a process like this:

    Typical is getting an email with the set list for a show and noticing a new song has been added; one I have heard before but have never tried to play or learn...

    - first, I force myself to try to play it from how I think I remember it goes
    - I usually discover or confirm that I don't know it, can't play it through yet

    I think to myself, "Ten minutes from now I will know it and be playing through it nicely, but right now I don't and can't."

    Then I spend some time trying to feel what is missing, what will change so that nothing is missing. It is hard to describe, but what I an doing is trying to sense my ear, my fingers, and the way I imagine the song in this state of not being able to do it. I want to get strong feelings about what it feels like (hands, ear, song) before I learn it, because after I learn it I want to be able to spend some time feeling what is now changed or no longer missing... I want to be able to compare the before and after feeling in my ear, hands, and how I think about the song.

    Then I learn the song and think to myself, "Ten minutes ago I did not have this song, but now I have it and can play it".

    Then I try to remember what it felt like before and compare that to how it feels now - not the feeling of success or accomplishment, but the feeling in my ear, hands, and mind... the feeling in them when I play it and succeed compared to trying and being unable... the new feeling that holds some part of the answer to "what's changed so that now I can do what before I could not?".

    The thing is, the answer never comes, but doing this process does something that seems to really make learning songs easier and faster.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    Something I have done for a very long time that has helped me learning stuff is to go through a process like this:

    Typical is getting an email with the set list for a show and noticing a new song has been added; one I have heard before but have never tried to play or learn...

    - first, I force myself to try to play it from how I think I remember it goes
    - I usually discover or confirm that I don't know it, can't play it through yet

    I think to myself, "Ten minutes from now I will know it and be playing through it nicely, but right now I don't and can't."

    Then I spend some time trying to feel what is missing, what will change so that nothing is missing. It is hard to describe, but what I an doing is trying to sense my ear, my fingers, and the way I imagine the song in this state of not being able to do it. I want to get strong feelings about what it feels like (hands, ear, song) before I learn it, because after I learn it I want to be able to spend some time feeling what is now changed or no longer missing... I want to be able to compare the before and after feeling in my ear, hands, and how I think about the song.

    Then I learn the song and think to myself, "Ten minutes ago I did not have this song, but now I have it and can play it".

    Then I try to remember what it felt like before and compare that to how it feels now - not the feeling of success or accomplishment, but the feeling in my ear, hands, and mind... the feeling in them when I play it and succeed compared to trying and being unable... the new feeling that holds some part of the answer to "what's changed so that now I can do what before I could not?".

    The thing is, the answer never comes, but doing this process does something that seems to really make learning songs easier and faster.
    I know I stuck my foot in my mouth when I assumed no one learns a song 100% from ear (versus using some form of "paper").

    But in the above you don't mention listening to the song being played by others. Are you saying you learn this "new" (song), just based on how you remember it? I.e., without listening to the song?

    Hey, if that is the case, I'm even more impressed.

  5. #54

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    I voted both, but mainly paper.

    As an amateur in Japan, I play mostly in jam sessions, once or twice, sometimes thrice, a week.

    We use The Jazz Standard Bible here, 2 volumes. Similar format to the Real Books, though not identical content. Seems to be some preference for hard bop.

    My workflow to prep for sessions is to pick a tune I’ve heard and like, find it in JSB and see how it lays on guitar. I stick to the JSB keys, since it’s mostly for the fun of playing out live with others.

    If the tune seems doable, I listen to half a dozen versions, usually a few guitarists (Grant Green, go to for one), another instrument or two, and vocals, to hear how pros approach it.

    Then I edit the iReal Pro chart to more or less match the JSB, and work on the head and comping to internalize the tune, and then eventually move toward soloing.

    It can take a week or so for an average difficulty tune, longer for the ringers. I lose patience easily and so tend to stick with what works best for having fun.

    This week, I worked on You and the Night and the Music in Cm and will call it at a session this weekend. Others will call that on occasion, too, so not too obscure for the scenes I’m playing at. I have my faves that no one calls much, like Killer Joe and Sugar, as long as they’re in the JSB.

    When there are vocalists in the house, they usually bring their own charts, so it’s cold reading.

    While the prep proceeds from reading, in a session it’s more playing by ear within the tune.

  6. #55
    Yeah, I have to admit to going the lazy way out pretty often and looking something up in one of the Chuck Sher real books or some other material.

    While that is worthwhile to do (to find the plain melody of some standard, and original key, skeletal outline of chords), like others have said, the ones that stick with me are those I just learned off the record.

    For example, I was just listening to in the car Don Patterson (with Pat!) and his great performance of "Embraceable You." I've seen the lead sheet, you know, but I once transcribed a bunch (not all) of Don P's work on just the head, including his fills and into his solo. (At the time I just knew Pat Martino as a name on those Don Patterson albums, and the guy who played with Joey D).

    Same with Sonny Clark's performance of "Deep in a Dream." I don't think I've ever seen a lead sheet of that one. However, I guess it could be arguably said that I "know" the tune, you know, sort of. The main points of the melody, and bass movement, raw chords.

    That's good and also something for me to overcome, because now that you "know" the tune, sort of one....you really know just one version of it, that's etched way in the brain.

    Hard to say, though. Both, of course.

  7. #56

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    Completely by ear if they are tunes. If it is more complicated like including fast lines then I mix ear and paper

  8. #57

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    The most effective process for me is not one I'd recommend. In fact, my first recommendation would be to train your ear to the absolute maximum degree possible.

    But, what has worked best for me is reading the song. Then, practicing it and playing it in jam sessions and on gigs until it has burned itself into my memory with no specific work on memorizing it. Melody comes faster than chords if the harmony is less than obvious.

    The better way, I suppose, is to figure it out from multiple well known recordings. I've rarely done that, and when I have, it doesn't stick in my memory any better. For me, it's repetition.

  9. #58

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    First you need to determine: what does it mean to learn a song...?
    is it about memorizing melodies and chords?
    If so, I listen to different performances first.
    If I like the song, it goes faster.
    I write down the melodies and chords from the recording and play until I remember. Sometimes I check and compare them with the versions from the books if there are no significant errors.
    The basis is always ears and then repetition/memory/.
    Theoretical knowledge helps me.

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    First you need to determine: what does it mean to learn a song...?
    is it about memorizing melodies and chords?
    If so, I listen to different performances first.
    If I like the song, it goes faster.
    I write down the melodies and chords from the recording and play until I remember. Sometimes I check and compare them with the versions from the books if there are no significant errors.
    The basis is always ears and then repetition/memory/.
    Theoretical knowledge helps me.
    I like that you start out asking "what does it mean to learn a song...?"
    But it's not clear to me the process you describe. It looks like maybe:

    - listen
    - write the melodies and chords (from just listening or listening with guitar/piano to verify?)
    - play until memorized (memorizing what you wrote or the sound that you heard listening?)

    So when the song is learned, what is the substance of that learned; is it the sheet you
    wrote of scored melody line and chord type names/symbols, or how the song sounds?