Ipad impact

[rpjazzguitar]

This post is about settings where musicians are reading.

Not so long ago, charts were on paper. Still are, depending on the setting.

But, at some point, some players would show up with Ipads and there'd be some effort to support their use.

When everything worked properly, a player with an electronic copy of a chart would air drop it to everybody else. Everybody would have ForScore and it would take less than 30 seconds to provide everybody with the chart.

And, it's possible to carry around a small device with thousands of charts. Multiple fakebooks, all of IRealPro and whatever people send you. You can even make notes on them easily or edit them with a bit more difficulty.

They look good on the bandstand and you don't need a light.

Now for the less-good news.

My first exposure to the Ipads was hen I was playing in an octet and some of the horn players wanted to use Ipads. The leader was a computer guy, but his computer was upstairs, so he'd disappear for a while and then return at which point he'd find out if the transfer worked (back then I think it was desktop to Ipad maybe by email?). Often enough, it didn't work and the band would sit around waiting.

Then, it started pervading smaller groups. Not unusual for the tune to fall apart while everybody touched the screen to turn the page. Then everybody got foot switches and it wasn't unusual for somebody to hit the wrong button, or something, and sometimes be thrown into a blank screen, unsure which way to go to get back to the chart they were supposed to be playing at that very moment. And, the tune would fall apart.

Then, Apple changed the security on airdrop and people had to enter codes, which could be confusing when air dropping simultaneously to multiple Ipads.

Often enough, something else would go wrong. For example, one player finding out that his Ipad thought his page turn pedal was a keyboard, meaning that it wouldn't recognize his kb and didn't give him a way to enter the code. Or, someone would be trying to airdrop and couldn't see all the other Ipads. So, everybody then has to check their settings and retry things. Most often, it eventually works, which reinforces the idea of trying it despite the time taken.

On my last gig, I sent out a pdf of all the charts in advance by file sharing and then, somehow (my bad) my own copy got altered and, on the gig, I was missing charts. They were elsewhere on my Ipad, but I have nearly 5000 tunes in ForScore and it takes a while to scroll to a particular one. That was a bad look and entirely my fault. But wouldn't have happened with paper.

When something goes wrong, two players I know get more interested in troubleshooting the computer problem then playing the tune from paper, even when everybody has a copy of the book. Music stops.

I just wondered if anybody is having similar, or different, experiences.

[Bob_Ross]

I just wondered if anybody is having similar, or different, experiences.

I'm about to find out, because no matter all the horror stories I've heard about using tablets & digital chart management apps for sightreading gigs, none of it strikes me as being worse than the crap I've been putting up with trying to use traditional paper charts.

First off, three-page charts don't fit on a conventional music stand, and the ends of the pages that overhang the stand tend to fold back, making them unreadable. And as the bass player in a pop/rock/jazz/show band, I rarely have the luxury of being able to execute a page turn mid-song, I'm pretty much playing constantly from my entrance until the fine.

Secondly, 90% of our gigs are outdoors. It's windy here. Hilarity ensues...not! I've got the giant plexiglass clothespins to hold charts to the stand, but they are cumbersome and inelegant.

Thirdly, set management is a PIA. If the bandleader calls an audible I have to go digging through an inch-thick pile of paper looking for the tune that's starting in three, two, one...

I'm done with that crap. Actually heading out later today to buy a 13" iPad Air, then I'll download the forScore app, scan all my paper charts, and then BURN THEM!
I'm entering the 21st Century come hell or high water.

[rpjazzguitar]

I'm about to find out, because no matter all the horror stories I've heard about using tablets & digital chart management apps for sightreading gigs, non

I'm done with that crap. Actually heading out later today to buy a 13" iPad Air, then I'll download the forScore app, scan all my paper charts, and then BURN THEM!
I'm entering the 21st Century come hell or high water.

Good luck with that.

I find two pages per screen just a little too small to read comfortably on the 13 inch screen. So, a 3 page chart is going to involve some page turns, possibly page 3 to page 1. Or searching for the segno if you don't already know where it is. Not always on Page 1. Errors occur.

My page turn foot pedal works reliably, but it's not bolted to the floor, so it ends up moving around, increasing the chance of a bad click. Might put something rough on the bottom to increase friction.

For outdoor gigs, I've been alerted to wash-out in bright sun and also overheating causing the device to shut down.

I've been gigging with the Ipad, but I have paper in the car just in case.

[skykomishone]

Good luck with that Bob!
I spend too much time searching my sheet piles and if I had spent the amount of time looking for charts in the piles of sheets to apply to playing the tunes, I'd be a master player by now. It is frustrating. I agree. It's the sheets man!
Probably on my horizon, a new Ipad.

[JazzNote]

This post is about settings where musicians are reading.

Not so long ago, charts were on paper. Still are, depending on the setting.

But, at some point, some players would show up with Ipads and there'd be some effort to support their use.

When everything worked properly, a player with an electronic copy of a chart would air drop it to everybody else. Everybody would have ForScore and it would take less than 30 seconds to provide everybody with the chart.

And, it's possible to carry around a small device with thousands of charts. Multiple fakebooks, all of IRealPro and whatever people send you. You can even make notes on them easily or edit them with a bit more difficulty.

They look good on the bandstand and you don't need a light.

Now for the less-good news.

My first exposure to the Ipads was hen I was playing in an octet and some of the horn players wanted to use Ipads. The leader was a computer guy, but his computer was upstairs, so he'd disappear for a while and then return at which point he'd find out if the transfer worked (back then I think it was desktop to Ipad maybe by email?). Often enough, it didn't work and the band would sit around waiting.

Then, it started pervading smaller groups. Not unusual for the tune to fall apart while everybody touched the screen to turn the page. Then everybody got foot switches and it wasn't unusual for somebody to hit the wrong button, or something, and sometimes be thrown into a blank screen, unsure which way to go to get back to the chart they were supposed to be playing at that very moment. And, the tune would fall apart.

Then, Apple changed the security on airdrop and people had to enter codes, which could be confusing when air dropping simultaneously to multiple Ipads.

Often enough, something else would go wrong. For example, one player finding out that his Ipad thought his page turn pedal was a keyboard, meaning that it wouldn't recognize his kb and didn't give him a way to enter the code. Or, someone would be trying to airdrop and couldn't see all the other Ipads. So, everybody then has to check their settings and retry things. Most often, it eventually works, which reinforces the idea of trying it despite the time taken.

On my last gig, I sent out a pdf of all the charts in advance by file sharing and then, somehow (my bad) my own copy got altered and, on the gig, I was missing charts. They were elsewhere on my Ipad, but I have nearly 5000 tunes in ForScore and it takes a while to scroll to a particular one. That was a bad look and entirely my fault. But wouldn't have happened with paper.

When something goes wrong, two players I know get more interested in troubleshooting the computer problem then playing the tune from paper, even when everybody has a copy of the book. Music stops.

I just wondered if anybody is having similar, or different, experiences.

I’m now working with two 12.9 inch iPads of the same generation, trying to synchronize them so that I always would have a backup. The main software I’m using is igigbook, I notice that startup gradually gets slower when opening. Automatic synchronization is impossible, as the two iPads behave differently although both run the same IOS. So I have to do much of the sync manually. For some gigs I still work with paper as this is safer and easier to handle, especially when the gigs are preceded by rehearsals where I have to make notes. This in spite of the apple pen which I own. Personally I feel that this digital world which we are forced into, distracts us from the music. In some areas it might be an advantage, but the disadvantages seem to de more dominant. I’m also sure that it will get worse - more and more I detect faults in software and I’m very concerned where this will lead to .....

[BBGuitar]

I have been using an android tablet for over 3 years now with MobileSheets and have had no issues.

The piano player and I are the only ones using technology.

At rehearsal when a tune is called I have only to touch the screen a couple times mere seconds while the other 16 players take many minutes to have the tune up.

The only issue is the Liberian does not use PDF's and hands out new tunes on paper; I then have to scan them later.

Tablets are the way of the future.

[SetPhasersToSwing]

My two cents.

I think iPads and electronic charts are ultimately a good thing, provided everyone has coordinated and communicated what version of the chart they are using etc. For last-minute/dep situations, I think it's far more professional to be able to quickly grab the chart, chord progression, or lyrics from an iPad than to go shuffling through stacks of paper. The precursor was the giant black ring binder, and those looked dreadful on stage, usually teetering on one of those spindly orchestral music stands!

Thankfully, I've only done a few outdoor gigs, but the first one I did, my total lack of experience showed loud and clear as 3 pages of Love for Sale went "sailing" down the street on a blustery Glasgow Sunday

However, where I think iPads have had a detrimental effect is (in my experience at least) at jams where someone calls a tune and everyone just dials up the irealbook app. Sure, it makes it really easy to play hundreds of standards but it takes the graft out of the process. If someone calls a tune a player doesn't know, rather than getting off the bandstand, going home later and learning a new tune, said player dials up irealbook and muddles through (again, this has been my experience over the past few years at local jams, ymmv), the band moves on and very little internalisation happens.

[StormyMonday]

After 40 years in IT now I'm a Luddite, or at least a late adopter. But I put Setlist Helper on my Android (it was free) just to see if I liked it after a music sheet blew into a lake at a windy waterfront gig. I mostly play duo gigs and some solo so not a ton of transfers to make. Mostly just put PDFs on the computer and link them up. My partner uses an iPad so he uses a different app, thus I have to edit setlists manually but that's not a huge issue. I still play most of our stuff from memory but like to have the chart there as backup and we do make midstream changes to setlists so it's nice to be able to just grab a song. Only time we struggle is if one of us makes a change to an arrangement and forgets to resend the PDF

[rpjazzguitar]

Good point about chart revisions.

The Ipad makes it easy for someone to submit a revised or different chart for the same tune. With home-brew charts, it's not unusual to get multiple revisions as errors are found and corrected.

And, just because there's a newer one doesn't mean that the older one isn't worth playing any more.

That creates an issue with version control. And, if you play some tunes, but not all, with different bands you have to choose an organizational approach which is probably going to be imperfect or very time consuming.

[Bob_Ross]

My page turn foot pedal works reliably, but it's not bolted to the floor, so it ends up moving around, increasing the chance of a bad click.

Since the band I'm primarily interested in using this for is a "showband" I'm already committed to bringing one stompbox which gets used on 4 or 5 tunes, and I've just conceded that clip-on tuners suck when used with a passive two-pickup instrument because it's awkward muting between songs to tune, so I have a stompbox tuner incoming...and at that point I might as well strap those two stompboxes -- plus the Bluetooth page-turning pedal -- to a metal pedalboard I already own. That sucker isn't going anywhere!

For outdoor gigs, I've been alerted to wash-out in bright sun and also overheating causing the device to shut down.

I'll probably keep bringing my wireless rechargeable stand light just in case washout becomes an issue. The overheating thing could be a major suckfest, since I'm in the desert! But at least most of our gigs are at night.

I've been gigging with the Ipad, but I have paper in the car just in case.

LOL! Oh yeah, not really going to burn my paper charts...and I'll probably have them onstage within an arm's reach, just in case!

[Cunamara]

I just helped a saxophonist/flautist friend of mine set up an iPad Pro with Real Books in C and Eb. Instead of having to carry six books to a gig, now he only has to carry an iPad. I've used UnrealBook for at least 10 years.

I have a repertoire of original music and have found that I can conveniently airdrop PDFs to their tablets with some, but others require me to print paper copies and to bring for them. And of course every time we get together I have to bring new copies because they've misplaced the old ones (that's perhaps not accidental ).

[Alter]

The first outdoor windy gig will make the tablets worth it. Or the first time someone forgets some charts or you want to make last minute changes etc.

I just never got into Apple, always disliked the company, especially after having an iPhone for a couple of years. Samsung has worked flawlessly for me.

[kris]

I'm about to find out, because no matter all the horror stories I've heard about using tablets & digital chart management apps for sightreading gigs, none of it strikes me as being worse than the crap I've been putting up with trying to use traditional paper charts.

First off, three-page charts don't fit on a conventional music stand, and the ends of the pages that overhang the stand tend to fold back, making them unreadable. And as the bass player in a pop/rock/jazz/show band, I rarely have the luxury of being able to execute a page turn mid-song, I'm pretty much playing constantly from my entrance until the fine.

Secondly, 90% of our gigs are outdoors. It's windy here. Hilarity ensues...not! I've got the giant plexiglass clothespins to hold charts to the stand, but they are cumbersome and inelegant.

Thirdly, set management is a PIA. If the bandleader calls an audible I have to go digging through an inch-thick pile of paper looking for the tune that's starting in three, two, one...

I'm done with that crap. Actually heading out later today to buy a 13" iPad Air, then I'll download the forScore app, scan all my paper charts, and then BURN THEM!
I'm entering the 21st Century come hell or high water.

It will be worse if there is a shortage of electricity or it will be very, very expensive.
Risky convenience. The iPad can also freeze - after all, it's a small computer.

[kris]

The first outdoor windy gig will make the tablets worth it. Or the first time someone forgets some charts or you want to make last minute changes etc.

I just never got into Apple, always disliked the company, especially after having an iPhone for a couple of years. Samsung has worked flawlessly for me.

I don't know about the ipad...
I played in a band where the leader forbade the use of any notes, ipads etc on stage.
During rehearsals, he did not forbid the use of helpful gadgets.
This leader said that the use of notes on stage looks unprofessional.
If these are big concerts - I think he was right.
On the other hand, if someone plays a few sets in a restaurant - no one cares what you use (sheet music or ipads)

[kris]

Somehow, before that, people played long concerts.
Most often, musicians relied on their musical memory - maybe they were geniuses?

[kris]

I'm looking for a music desk....?

[gvurrdon]

However, where I think iPads have had a detrimental effect is (in my experience at least) at jams where someone calls a tune and everyone just dials up the irealbook app. Sure, it makes it really easy to play hundreds of standards but it takes the graft out of the process. If someone calls a tune a player doesn't know, rather than getting off the bandstand, going home later and learning a new tune, said player dials up irealbook and muddles through (again, this has been my experience over the past few years at local jams, ymmv), the band moves on and very little internalisation happens.

This ability to muddle through is useful for the rhythm section at jams; I have found that unless horn players are good readers and can go off real book charts they will decline to play anything they don't know, but the rhythm section players don't have that option and it's good to have a chart if we need to play the unfamiliar tune anyway.
I agree about internalisation, though; I find that I can't remember pieces very well if I play with a chart.

[SetPhasersToSwing]

This ability to muddle through is useful for the rhythm section at jams; I have found that unless horn players are good readers and can go off real book charts they will decline to play anything they don't know, but the rhythm section players don't have that option and it's good to have a chart if we need to play the unfamiliar tune anyway.
I agree about internalisation, though; I find that I can't remember pieces very well if I play with a chart.

Exactly, it’s a necessary evil to keep things moving along. However, if we relied on what the horns players at my local jams knew without reading, we’d barely get through Autumn Leaves


And, as someone who is not a good enough reader, but is good at memorising tunes, I’m probably biased towards doing the homework.

[GuyBoden]

Yes, I'd get a tablet, when I can't remember the songs I need to know.

[kris]

Yes, I'd get a tablet, when I can't remember the songs I need to know.

I have an old iPhone. I use it more often for calling.
I have some cool jazz apps in it.
I didn't use the iphone during the gigs.

ps.
Let's imagine a large symphony orchestra and 30 tablets.
Some anti-musician will start messing up the image in tablets. if possible...?

[John A.]

I have iReal and pdf's of my collection of fake books (Real Book I and II plus assorted other things) loaded into iGigBook on an old ipad, plus various other charts in in google drive/docs, where I also keep my set lists. Before a gig, I open whatever charts/books/lists I need and make them available off line. It all works fine. When I first started doing this a few of years ago I forgot to disable auto-sleep on the ipad, which messed me up a little, but no issues at all since sorting that out. The ipad is so old that I can't update it anymore, which means I don't have to worry about a new version of iOS messing it up.

I rarely have to deal with more than a single-page chart, so I haven't bothered with a page-turner gadget. For most of my gigs I'm also singing, and I have a bracket for the ipad that clamps to my mic stand, so I rarely need a music stand. For the most part, I'm playing tunes from memory rather than reading so it's all a lot less mission-critical to me than what some of you guys are doing, but it's vastly easy easier than actual books or paper charts.

[Kirk Garrett]

I think that it’s always good to use (and have access to) both digital and analog tools rather than to try to rely on just one or the other.

[Cunamara]

This leader said that the use of notes on stage looks unprofessional.

He should tell every orchestra on the planet that they look unprofessional. For that matter, a few months ago I saw Joe Lovano playing with his Paramount Quartet which included Julian Lage, who had sheet music in front of him throughout the night. Would your bandleader tell Julian that he looked unprofessional?

Having a chart in front of you to play a 12 bar blues in Bb or to play "Summertime" or rhythm changes is one thing; you should know these. If you're playing unfamiliar tunes or maybe original music that isn't following the entrenched formulas, on the other hand, having a chart in front of you is a lot less unprofessional than playing wrongly.

[Oscar67]

Sight-reading (as in immediately and correctly playing a piece you’ve never heard before) is sorcery. A chord chart is one thing but pulling complicated and unknown music from the dots…? Forget it. How people like Lee Ritenour, Steve Vai and Al di Meola can sight-read pretty much anything is a mystery to me. My brain isn’t wired like that. Even if you can read the dots well enough to play most of the tune, what happens if there’s a passage coming up that your hands can’t immediately do, something you’d need to practice, a piano chord unplayable on guitar, etc?

I can read just enough to figure it out, memorise and practice (translation: incompetent). And I absolutely need an iPad because dots on paper are too small these days.

[GuyBoden]

It's a "New Pair of Eyes" I need not an iPad, because these old eyes are getting very faulty.